Derek >> All right, with those logistics aside, let's move into today's content. As Jayme mentioned, I'm Derek, and I'll serve as today's moderator. And I'm now pleased to introduce our presenters. Today, we have Ray Cebula and Danelle Wahonick with us. Ray received his law degree from the University of New Hampshire's Franklin Pierce School of Law. He spent 23 years providing legal services to individuals with disabilities and their interactions with Social Security and then became part of Cornell University's Work Incentive Support Center. In 2005, Ray joined the staff of Cornell's K. Lisa Yang and Hock E. Tan Institute on Employment and Disability. That's in the School of Industrial and Labor Relations. Ray now serves as the program director of YTI Online, that is known as Cornell's Work Incentives Practitioner Credentialing Program. Ray will be joined a little later by Danelle Wahonick. Danelle is with Social Security and the Employment Policy team. And she'll be joining us to discuss the Payroll Information Exchange. Again, welcome, everyone, to today's webinar. We encourage you to submit your questions in the Q&A pod. And at this time, I'll now turn the session over to Ray.

Ray Cebula >> Good afternoon, everybody. I'm happy to be with you again. Today, we're going to be talking about those top three questions about working while receiving benefits. We're going to talk a bit about the Ticket to Work Program. What is that Ticket to Work Program that Social Security has? How do I participate in that program? Can I work while receiving Social Security benefits? And then, bonus questions. What do I need to know about wage reporting? Very, very important topic. And I'm real happy that we're going to hear some information about the Payroll Information Exchange or PIE program. 

So what is this Ticket to Work Program? It is a free and voluntary Social Security program. We're going to try to work with you and show you, inform you about what would happen to your benefits, your benefits package when you start earning income. You know, this Ticket Program offers career development for people ages 18 through 64 who receive Social Security disability benefits and want to work. Those are the only qualifications we have. Are you eligible? If you are aged 18 through 64, you're eligible. You need to receive a Social Security Disability Insurance Benefit, SSDI, and/or a Supplemental Security Income benefit, SSI. I do want to go back to that younger side of this program, the age 18 and through 21, I'm going to say, these folks need to be approved as disabled adults. So they will go through on the SSI side and the age 18 redetermination. So that's it. That's all you need to do to qualify for the program. We have two different benefits programs that Social Security administers; they're very, very different. The first one being SSDI, Social Security Disability Insurance. It is an insurance program. People earn this benefit by working and paying into the Social Security system. SSI, Supplemental Security Income, is a needs-based program, so it's not requiring a work history in order to qualify. Because of that, it's paid to people with very, very low income and very low resources. So there's some extra financial requirements for that program. It's important that you know what program you're receiving benefits from when you do meet with a planner or somebody else. They're going to want to know, because the rules for returning to work are very, very different. You know, SSI rules apply to SSI, SSDI rules apply to SSDI. And if I were to, you know, talk to you and not know which benefit you had, I might be talking to you about incorrect information. We don't want that to happen. The Ticket Program can help. 

The Ticket Program connects you with free employment services to help you decide if work is the right move for you. This is your choice. Remember, I said it was voluntary. You can come to us, we'll talk to you all about it, and you can make an informed choice about whether work is right for you. To prepare for work, what do you need to do? You know, many people who are on disability benefits are looking to fill that gap on their resume. An Employment Network, which Derek mentioned earlier, provides people that can help you fill that gap. Do you need any special training? Do you need a certificate? Do you need a plumber's license? Something like that. We can help you get that certificate. How about finding a paid work opportunity? You know, these are great things. You know, an internship with pay. You know, if you're a younger individual, maybe one of those summer paid work experiences, those are all very good starting points, you know, and can change someone's trajectory to be a worker rather than be a beneficiary. And then we're not going to leave you be just because we've found a job for you. We're going to help you succeed. We will stay with you until you are comfortable managing the situation on your own, and you are now a regular worker with the disability. You can learn more what is Social Security's Ticket to Work Program, a self-guided tutorial. Those links are in the Web Links pod. 

How can I participate in the Ticket Program? It's almost limitless. So many ways you could participate. Follow these steps, determine if you're eligible for the program. If you need help to determine your eligibility, contact the Ticket to Work Help Line. You can reach out to them at 1-866-968-7824 or for TTY users, 1-866-833-2967. Step 2, find a service provider that offers the services you need by using the Find Help tool or contact the Ticket to Work Help Line again. That Find Help tool is a really great tool. You know, I'm on it several times a week, trying to match people with sources that might be able to help them. It's very easy. If you're looking for an Employment Network, you can search just for Employment Networks. If you're looking for a benefits planner, you can search just benefits planners. Or if you're not sure, you can get information about everybody who could possibly be your starting point. There's no wrong door. No wrong door at all. Step 3 is to make contact with the service provider and take the next step towards employment. You get to decide if the service provider is a good fit for you. You can interview as many of these people as you want and choose. You know, let's use an EN for an example, the Employment Network. Do you want somebody that speaks Spanish? That's fine. The Find Help tool will let you limit your search to Spanish-speaking Employment Networks. Are you looking for a benefits planner? This will get you to someone you can speak to and determine what's going to happen to those benefits once you begin earning income. It's up to you, and you should take advantage and speak to several of them before you decide who you're going to work with. The Ticket to Work Help Line offers a toll-free Help Line to answer your questions and support you on your journey to financial independence. You can call that Ticket to Work Help Line Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. through 8 p.m. Eastern time. 1-866-968-7842, or for TTY users, 1-866-833-2967. 

Achieving your goals, you know, what are we going to do to help you do that? As you think about returning to work or entering the workforce for the first time, possibly changing careers, you may have a lot of questions and need support. You know, connecting with the Ticket Program service provider can help you develop achievable goals and establish steps to find and maintain employment in your new career. Ticket Program service providers can even help you identify the type of career you might enjoy and any transferable skills you have. Transferable skills are simply those skills you developed before you were disabled, while you were disabled, and how can we bring those skills into your current work search. Who's your employment team? You can have as many members of your employment team as you want or need. You know, you'll have access to a variety of Ticket Program service providers. Employment Networks, which we call ENs, we've already talked about them. Workforce Employment Networks, these are what used to be called the one-stop centers, you know, and you can — they're actually great places. I love those centers. Because if you need a computer to help build your resume, there's somebody there to help you and might have some suggestions for filling those little gaps that you might have. State Vocational Rehabilitation agencies can bring their power with them to the table to help you. You know, if you're looking for education, I need to become a teaching assistant. That's my goal. Will I need a two-year degree to do that? State Vocational Rehabilitation agencies tend to have the money to support that educational endeavor to help you reach your goal. 

Work Incentive Planning and Assistance projects, the WIPA projects. These are the benefits planners. Again, they will break down your income, show you what your current situation is, and then look what happens to your benefits package if you begin earning more income. Now, I'm going to tell you, generally, it looks real good. You know, most people who return to work are going to be better off. And then protection and advocacy for beneficiaries of Social Security or PABSS. This is kind of the legal wing. You know, if you need help, asking for an accommodation on the workplace. You know, the PABSS agency could potentially help you with that. There is one agency in every state and territory in the country. So, let's talk a little more deeply about each one of these. 

An Employment Network or EN is a private or public organization that has an agreement with Social Security to provide free employment services to people that are eligible for that Ticket. You know, many state public workforce systems, such as the American Job Centers, I called them earlier one-stops, because I've been doing this for a long time, and they are considered workforce ENs. They all can do the same thing. You know, when I said you're going to want to search and use that help tool to find people. You know, if I have a physical disability, maybe I don't want to match myself with somebody who focuses on mental disabilities. You know, you can be that picky about it. As I said, I want someone who speaks Spanish. You know, I'd be more comfortable that way. You can narrow it all down to find someone that really is a good match for you. Now, working with an Employment Network, what are we going to do? Employment Network services and supports is designed to help you on the path to financial independence through work and may help you address the following items to identify your work goals. You know, I talk to many a recipient who really don't know what they want to do or what they can do. You know? I'm here to tell you, you can do lots, lots more than you even imagine, and it's up to the Employment Networks to help talk you through what your goals are, what's achievable, and hopefully, get you a job that will turn into a career. 

I talked about writing and reviewing resumes. If you have one, bring it into the Employment Network. You know, I haven't done a resume in 25 years now. You know? And if I needed to do it, they look different, so I would want some help to see if I'm doing it in the newest and most familiar way for my prospective employments. And then filling in those gaps. You know, nobody spent time doing nothing. Everybody's doing something, whether you're working or you're on disability benefits. And we can take some of the hobbies that you may have engaged in while you were on disability benefits and potentially turn those into jobs. Preparing for interviews? Got to do that. You know, the Employment Networks can sit down with you and actually have a mock interview so that you are ready. What about those questions the employer may have for you? They always ask, "Do you have any questions for us?" That's a critical point in the interview, you know. And the Employment Network can help you develop those questions for each employer. And it shows that you are interested, that you know something about this business that you want to work for. Reasonable accommodation requests. The Employment Network can work with you to ask for those accommodations or can coach you so that you can do that by yourself. Receiving benefits counseling. Many Employment Networks have benefits counselors on staff. You are not required to use that one. You could go to another one. But know that you can get these services. And it's kind of like one-stop shopping, right? You go, and you get your employment plan, and you get your benefits summary as well. 

State rehabilitation agencies, these are really big agencies. You know, a State VR agency provides a wide variety of services to help people with disabilities return to work, enter new lines of work, or enter the workforce for the first time. A State VR agency may offer benefits counseling as well, and may also be able to help you with vocational rehabilitation and training in education. Now, vocational rehabilitation, training, and education tend to be very expensive, and that's why we rely on the state agencies for that. They're more equipped to provide those services. Working with the State VR agency. You know, usually we're working with individuals who need more significant services. So if you need some real rehabilitation services, this is where we're going to go. The ENs could be tiny little agencies. They could be big agencies. But are generally not equipped with the funds to provide these services. In some states, this includes intensive training, education, and rehabilitation. So I'm going to become a teaching assistant. I need my education. Do I need any rehabilitation? Well, I have this prosthesis on my left arm, and maybe I need to learn how to type with that now. You know, I need to learn to do more delicate maneuvers with that prosthesis. VR is going to help you learn that. They may also provide career counseling and job placement assistance, as well as counseling, about how earnings from work may affect your benefits. 

Now, the WIPA programs, these are Social Security-funded benefits planning programs. They are staffed by certified Community Work Incentive Coordinators  or CWICs who provide free benefits counseling to working or self-employed Social Security disability beneficiaries about how earnings are going to affect SSDI, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, and other benefits like SNAP, like public housing. We want you to be sure you're aware of what's going to happen to your entire package, you know, as you return to work. They can help you understand Social Security Work Incentives and how they apply to you. Remember, I spoke earlier about the SSDI program and SSI, two very different programs. Your benefits planner will be able to speak to you about the rules that affect the programs that you're on. We're not just going to give you all this information, you know, for SSI and SSDI. If you're only on SSI, we're going to tailor this to your particular needs. How about explaining the potential benefits of employment and dispelling myths about work? You know, some people say employment is the best medicine. And I think I believe that. You know, when I'm working, when I'm focused on something, I'm not thinking about what ails me. And that's almost like a vacation. And that comes, that's one of the benefits of work besides the money that you're earning. For general information about Work Incentives, and if you are working to be referred to a WIPA serving your area, call the Ticket to Work Help Line at 1-866-968-7842 or for TTY users 1-866-833-2967. 

Now, to find a server provider, I mentioned that Help Finder, you know, it's a great thing, you know. And that link "Find Help" page is in your Web Links pod. And I said you could search in many ways, right? You can search by your zip code if you want somebody who's really close to you. Limit it to your zip code and see what comes up. What types of service are people offering? Do they offer the services that meet your disabilities’ needs? How about languages? I said I prefer to work with somebody who speaks Spanish. That's okay. Lots of other languages out there. So you can put your language in and see what comes up. And the provider types. If you're interested in just finding out what would happen to your benefits if you went to work, maybe you just want to search for the WIPA programs. If you're interested in getting involved with discussing what you might want to do, that's an EN job. Limit your search. It's going to make you happier. I know when I limit my searches, that makes me very, very happy. And the other way into this is to contact the Ticket to Work Help Line. Once again, that is 866-968-7842 or 1-866-833-26… ah, sorry, let me do that again. 1-866-833-2967 for TTY users. Again, they're available Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Eastern, which gets you to 5 o'clock on the Pacific Coast. Okay. Derek, do we have any questions?

Derek >> This is Derek. Thank you so much, Ray, for covering that content and getting us started with a rich overview of all the employment team members. And thank you, everyone, for your questions. We've been receiving quite a few of them. Of course, one of our most frequently asked questions during a webinar is, "Will this recording be available or can I get the materials afterwards?" And we do have on the Choose Work website an on-demand area where you can get the recordings no later than two weeks after today. So we do encourage you to check out those recordings, and we'll give that website later. Yeah, Ray, we got some really good questions coming in. Some are common ones, and others are a little bit different. So appreciate you sticking with us for our first Q&A. Here's our first one. "Why does it matter if I receive SSDI or SSI?"

Ray >> Well, why does it matter? It matters because the Ticket to Work Program focuses on those two benefits. This is a Social Security program. So you need to have one of those benefits to get this employment team in place. If you don't have SSI or SSDI and have a disability, you're still able to go to the State Vocational Rehabilitation agency. And if they have a benefits plan, you may be able to get help that way. So we're not excluding people that don't have these benefits. We're just focusing on them because that's the way the Social Security program works. I hope that helps.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thanks, Ray. Appreciate that. Well, we understand that these are important to differentiate, and some folks could be receiving both, I suppose. But how do you know which one — or if you're receiving both SSI and SDI, how can somebody get clarity there?

Ray >> Yeah, there's a — there are lots of places they can get clarity. When you receive a notice from Social Security, it will say right on top what benefit you're receiving. So that's one clear way to do it. The other, and a very important tool for you, whether you're going to go to work or not, is my Social Security account. If you go on to socialsecurity.gov, you're going to find a link right on that front page to register for a my Social Security account. And you can open that account, and the first thing it's going to tell you is what benefits you have. You can print out a benefits verification notice. You can report income. You know, these are very, very important to have. You know, I think everybody should have one. I've had one for many years, you know, and I'm on the other side of getting a career. I'm looking at retirement, and I can use that tool, my Social Security account, to find out if I become disabled today, what will I receive? What will my family members receive? Or if I retire today, what will my benefit be? If I wait a few years, what will it look like? There is a ton of information there. And every year, Social Security sends you a little message. It says, "Take a look at your wages." You know, and you can go into my Social Security account and find out exactly how much money you paid into that system, right? And what your annual wage was. And it's important to look at that because you can correct errors. I've always said that if Oprah's salary turned up in my Social Security account, I would not be unhappy. But if mine showed up in Oprah's, she'd really not be happy at all. She would want that error fixed.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thanks, Ray. Yeah, I guess it's a good idea to know and check it. So, making sure that you have a my Social Security account, it's a great way to do that. It is a very private and secure information source. You could do that at ssa.gov/myaccount. It's actually right on the homepage now. So if you don't have one of those, definitely get it. You can check your benefits in there, along with the other ways that Ray was describing. Ray, we have a question here. It's about disability type. When you were talking about "Find Help," you brought up, you know, you can search by things that matter to you. There's a specific question in here about what about intellectual disability. And I'll just broaden that to be individuals with intellectual or developmental disabilities. Can the Ticket Program support those people?

Ray >> Absolutely. You know, there are Employment Networks who, I bet, specialize in working with folks like that. You know, I mean, that type of disability is pretty much a specialized service because it's unique. You know, it's unique, and it affects people in many different ways. But, yeah, there's somebody out there, I'm sure, who you can find by using that Find Help tool.

Derek >> This is Derek. Yeah, thanks for that, Ray. We have service providers that are Employment Networks that are out there that definitely understand the different types of accommodations that could occur and work with employers on changing language and making sure that these folks can be successful, like any other employee can be successful too. So definitely encourage people with intellectual and developmental disabilities to explore the Ticket Program. Our next question is from somebody who hasn't worked before. And, you know, seeking work for the first time, asking, "Can the Ticket Program help me if I don't have any work experience?"

Ray >> Absolutely. You know, what? We would start the same way we would start with somebody who wants to return to work. What are your interests? You know, what are your hobbies? What do you do, you know, during the day or during the evening? We can find out a lot of things and focus those activities on a work-related trajectory. What can we take from what your interests are and potentially turn into a job? And I'm going to take the luxury of telling you a short story now. I once had a transition-age youth as a client, and, you know, he wanted to get his summer paid work experience, you know. And mom was a little leery about losing some of the SSI benefits. But when I talked to them, it turned out they wouldn't lose anything. But the important part of this story is the kid walked into my office carrying a skateboard. And I asked him about the skateboard. And he told me he built it. And I said, "Okay. Tell me how that went?" And he told me exactly what he did to build that. The end of the story was, we got him paid summer work experience at a skateboard shop, you know. And he was working in the back, building them, and eventually, he could turn that into working in the front of the store, to sell some stuff, and potentially owning his own skateboard shop. So that's what we're looking to do for people. It's more than just a job. It's something you can turn into a career. Thanks for listening to this story.

Derek >> Oh, yeah, this is Derek. Thanks for that, Ray. It's important that people can explore work and know that, right, Employment Networks are out there to help develop a plan. So, you know, one way to gain experience is to start small, but then you build off that, and the Employment Networks will help develop that employment plan that's really customized for each person. You know, we have a couple more questions to ask before we move to the next FAQ. Just looking ahead, Ray's going to turn to, "Can I work while receiving Social Security disability benefits next?" That's the third FAQ. So stick around for that, but we've got a couple more questions here. Next one is about deciding between an EN or a VR. You mentioned the two service providers. Some folks are you know, saying that, "Well, I was going to work with the VR, can I work with the Employment Network?" What's the right service provider for each person, and how do they figure that out?

Ray >> Yeah, you know, the basic discussion has to be pretty much what types of services do you need? As I said earlier, if I need to go to school for two years and I need tuition and books and fees and all of that to be paid for, that's likely going to be a VR case. You know, because, as I said, those are big, big agencies, you know. I don't know how they're doing right now. I can't tell you that they're all in good shape right now. But they generally have the funds to support that type of issue. You know, if you want to go back to the job that you had, you know, and you just need your resume polished up and get some job leads and some interviewing practice, well, then an EN is probably the right place for you. You know, they're going to be smaller, more personal agencies, you know. And as I said, they could be quite large too. So it depends on what you want. I know if I were looking for an EN for that type of service, you know, I would want somebody in town. I want somebody close to me. Ideally, somebody that I can sit down with. Could somebody in Seattle do my Employment Network stuff? Sure, that could work, but I prefer to see the person in the flesh, you know. That's just my preference. So that's pretty much what you're looking to do. What do you need and what do you want? You know, I mean, there's a lot of different things. If you need durable medical equipment, we're talking about going to the State VR agency, because that type of equipment is very, very expensive. I hope that helps a bit.

Derek >> This is Derek. That's great, Ray, I really appreciate that. And while we have a couple more questions, I'm going to hold them for our second Q&A because we're starting to see a lot of questions come in around some topics that you're about to cover, Trial Work Period, reinstatement, and get into the details of some other Work Incentives. So with that, Ray, I encourage everyone listening to keep bringing the questions to us through the Q&A pod. Our team's answering as many as possible there, and then we'll forward on others to Ray. But at this time, Ray, back to you, and we'll get into, "Can I work while receiving Social Security disability benefits?"

Ray >> Well, the answer is yes, yes, yes. Well, let's talk about the details to get to yes. While working — working while receiving benefits, I mean, if you think about what this program is, what the SSI program is, what the SSDI program is, you know, it's providing you with income and health care, you know, while you need it, you know. Is it the end-all? No. You're always going to have more if you are working. That is the bottom line. There will be more money. Your health care will be protected, you know. So we're looking at a bunch of good things. And you can — you know, Derek suggested starting small. That's fine. And then get bigger and bigger until you don't need these benefits anymore, you know, and you're financially independent. And it's real common. These questions, "Can I work?" "Will I lose my benefits?" Are the first thing most people ask. So it's real common to worry, you know, will I lose my benefits? Will I lose my health care? What about my SNAP? We've got real good news for you. You can work while you're receiving benefits. Social Security has many safety nets in place to help you try working before your SSDI or SSI ends because of your earnings. The Ticket to Work Program is one of those. We've got bunches and bunches of Work Incentives. You know, we're going to share some of them with you now that are going to protect your benefits. They're not going to count all of your income. You know, Social Security is concerned with less than 50% of what you're earning because of the SSI calculations. You know, that's the type of Work Incentive that we hope you will understand and that you will take advantage of. Social Security Work Incentives. 

You know, Social Security has many rules and different programs called Work Incentives that can help you keep all or some of your benefits for a period of time while you try work. You know, the Work Incentives are available to Social Security disability beneficiaries, whether you're on SSDI or SSI or both. You know, some of the specific types of disability program — excuse me, I messed that one up. Examples of some of these Work Incentives include Impairment-Related Work Expenses and a Trial Work Period. Now, I told you it was important to know what benefit you received. This is a good place to point that out. A Trial Work Period is only an SSDI Work Incentive. But Impairment-Related Work Expenses are available to both SSDI and SSI, but we use them very differently. So that's why I'm encouraging you to get that my Social Security account up and running so that we'll all be on the same page when we talk to each other. You know, if you have questions about which Work Incentives could help, you know, a great place to start is a Ticket to Work Help Line. I've given you that number so many times, you must all remember it by now. I will probably give it to you again. But start there. You know, there's no obligation to call and ask a few questions. 

Impairment-Related Work Expenses. You know, this is — I really think if any of you are "The Sound of Music" fans, these are a few of my favorite things. I love these, you know. Just think about what your disability might cost, you know. IRWEs, Impairment-Related Work Expenses, are costs for items or services that you need to work because of your disability. Social Security can deduct the cost of that expense from your countable income in determining whether you're eligible to continue to receive benefits. So if I have to take prescription drugs, you know, I have insurance, but I still have three drugs that cost me $15 co-pays every month. That $45 comes off the top of my wages. If I earn $500, we reduce that to $455 by subtracting those IRWEs. That's a great thing. Many IRWEs can be much more expensive than that, you know? How about buying a wheelchair? You know, getting your wheelchair repaired. Those are all Impairment-Related Work Expenses. Now, you can claim them, I said, both from SSDI and SSI. We use them a little bit differently, though. Now, to meet the criteria for an expense to be an IRWE, the item or service enables you to work. My counseling co-pays, my wheelchair expenses. You need the item of service because of a physical or mental impairment. I'm a paraplegic. I'm paralyzed from the waist down. I need the wheelchair. I need it to work. And you pay for the item yourself and are not reimbursed by any other source. You know. I actually did that when I said I have insurance for prescription drugs, but I have a co-pay. I can't deduct the entire cost because I haven't paid for the entire cost, but I did pay the co-pays. And the cost must be reasonable. Now, I've never even seen that come up, you know, because most of the expenses, you know, that are related to work, you know, can be a little pricey, but are they reasonable in your area? This is a reasonable cost. And again, I've never ever seen that come up. And you can find out more information about IRWEs. These are great and powerful Work Incentives in the Impairment-Related Work Expense link in the Web Links pod. 

Some examples, a prosthesis, sometimes called an artificial limb. Do I need a new one to go to work? Do I need more training, or do I need a better one? Because one of my job duties is going to be typing. And I need a more equipped prosthesis. Modifications to your vehicle related to your disability that allow you to commute to work. You know, I use a wheelchair. I can still drive a car, but it's got to be modified. So I can drive it using my hands only. That could be an Impairment-Related Work Expense. Expenses paid for guide dogs or service animals that enable you to work. This is great. You know, I have a bunch of dogs here. I love my dogs. They're not service dogs, but this can include the purchase of the animal, training, food, license, veterinary care. With three dogs, I know what veterinary care costs. You know, and if one of them were a service animal, all of the food I buy, I have to license it with the county every year, you know. The veterinary care every year. You know, I just got back. I paid $183 last week to hear that my dog was completely healthy. That is veterinary care that's required every year. That's an IRWE. 

All right, we're going to move on to trial work. The Trial Work Period is an SSDI Work Incentive. And it lets you work with no penalty whatsoever. You know, if you receive SSDI, the Trial Work Period, or TWP, allows you to test your ability to work for at least nine months. During the TWP, you receive your full SSDI benefit no matter how much you earn, as long as you report your work activity and continue to meet the rules for disability. Now, these months are precious. I really think these are precious months. Do you need time to determine what your capacity is right now? Are you wondering can I work 20 hours a week? Can I work 30 hours a week? Can I work full-time? Well, these nine months, the time to figure that out, you know. What type of job do I want? Well, I did get a job. You know, Derek helped me get this great job, but it's really not working out. It's not the job I thought it would be. Switch jobs. Find a different one. Test your ability, capacity-wise, and enjoyment-wise during these nine months. And remember, report your wages every month. That's going to keep Social Security and you on the same page as to where you are in your progress towards financial independence.
 
So, how is the Trial Work Period calculated? You know, first of all, you have to accumulate nine service months in a 60-month rolling period. Now, that sounds a little confusing. It really isn't. You know, what we have to do is you go to work this month, and you use a trial work month. We're going to look backwards. Do you have any others, you know, within the last five years? And then we're going to figure out what goes on. If you have none, we move to January, and that would be your second month. But we're always looking back. The first time we catch nine months in a five-year period, the Trial Work Period is over. Now, Social Security uses both hours and wages, depending on what your work situation is. We're going to use the amount you earned in a month before taxes, so it's your gross wages to decide if months count towards your Trial Work Period. In 2025, if you earned $1160 or more, or let's stop that, $1160 a month, you have used a Trial Work Period month. You can use nine again within that five-year period. If you are self-employed, you know, self-employment is a great option, you know, whether you want to do something like have a little kiosk on the beach selling t-shirts and saltwater taffy, or you want to do medical billing at your home. Self-employment is a great option for people. You know, you don't necessarily make a whole lot of money the first few months, right? Self-employment means you work, work, work to build up your business over time. But if you do work more than 80 hours a month, even if you don't make any money, Social Security will consider that month a trial work month because you're self-employed. You might be doing it all, and you're doing substantial work, just not earning money in the business yet. Both of those things, 1160 or 80 hours, makes it a service month and therefore we click off one of those trial work months. Now, the IRWEs we talked about, in fact, all of the other Work Incentives don’t apply during your Trial Work Period. We don't need them. If I can make as much as I want and use one trial work month, that means I could earn $1161 and use it, or I could make $5000 that month and use one month. So we don't need the other Work Incentives. We will use those Work Incentives in the next phase. You can learn more about the Trial Work Period and other Work Incentives when you complete your Trial Work Period, called the Extended Period of Eligibility. Just look for that Trial Work Period fact sheet in the Web Links pod. There are lots of Work incentives that EPE, the Extended Period of Eligibility, is going to take you through another three years. And there's more after that. You know, their Work Incentives are really fabulous things. 
So let's move to what do I need to know about wage reporting? You need to know a lot about wage reporting. You need to know that when you signed your application for benefits, you agreed to tell Social Security when you started working and how much you were earning. Every month. How do you tell them? There are lots of ways. There are lots of ways, but it is a requirement. Why is wage reporting important? It's an important step to avoid errors in payments from Social Security. Again, we have to try to keep Social Security and each one of you on the same page moving forward to avoid any errors. If you receive SSDI or SSI, you or your representative must promptly report any work activity to Social Security. Now the rules are a little different for each benefit, but I usually tell people, "Report by the 6th of the month after the month you earned." And there's a great way to do this. It's December. I report my wages for December by January 6. That way, you've met every deadline Social Security has for reporting. Now, figure out how you can do that. You know, and what you need to tell Social Security. You know, you or your representative must tell Social Security if any of the following changes happen. You start work, or you stop work. If you start work, we've got to determine if those wages keep you eligible for benefits. If you stop work, you have to report it so Social Security turns your benefits back on if that's possible. You know, what are your work duties? What are your hours? Have those items or has your pay changed? You know, in this time of year, during the holiday season, it's frequently a time where some employers ask you to work a little bit extra. I need you five hours more each week. You report that change to Social Security so that they remain consistent with you. You know, you start paying for expenses that you need to work. Oftentimes, when I ask somebody about those IRWEs, the Impairment-Related Work Expenses, they're not sure. You know, I can help discover some, but let me tell you, when you start working, those expenses become very obvious. And we report those to Social Security so that their calculations are all in order. Tips for wage reporting. Keep records of your payment information. This is the time where you need to go to the dollar store, you can pick up everything you need. Some, yeah, a manila accordion file with sections in it, so you can keep your reports, you can keep your notices. A box of pencils and some paper. You can do this for less than 10 bucks. Keep your pay stubs. One of those little sections in your folder is going to be for your pay stubs. Keep any pay records that come along with that. If you have a stub that has tons of information about vacation time you took, about sick time you took. That's important as well. And any bank statements that you receive. 

Now, I know lots of people are banking online, and you're not getting those bank statements. But, you know, I do my banking online too, and every month, I get a little thing saying my e-statement is available. Print it out so that you have copies of what's going into your account and what's coming out of your account. And you can see that Social Security check, the amount deposited into your account. When you're mailing information, consider using certified mail to protect your private information. You're going to be sending a lot of stuff to Social Security. Keep a copy of everything you send. Another little section in that folder. The Ticket to Work service providers can assist you in reporting your wages. Some benefits planners will do that until you're able and more confident enough to do it yourself. No one is actually going to report for you, you know, on your team. We're going to help you do it, you know. If you're going to be working, you know, you're independent right now, you get your benefits, and you budget that over a month. If you're working, we're going to add a little more, you know, and your responsibility to Social Security is going to be met by you. For the most up-to-date information on how to report wages, visit ssa.gov/faqs/en/ questions/KA-01412.html. It's also, you go into your Web Links pod. You're going to find that, too. All right, Derek, I'm going to turn it back to you so we can hear about PIE.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thank you, Ray, very much for going through the importance of wage reporting and what everyone needs to know about it. Yeah, that URL that Ray just read out is that item number 13 in the Web Links pod, "How to Report Your Wages." So check that out if you want to go into those details. At this time, we're going to transition over to our next bonus question, and that's about the Payroll Information Exchange. And as I mentioned at the outset of the meeting, we are joined today by Danelle Wahonick. Danelle is with the Employment Policy Team with the Social Security Administration. And at this point, I'll turn it over to you, Danelle.

Danelle >> Thanks, Derek. Welcome, everyone. Today I'll be introducing the Payroll Information Exchange, or PIE. PIE is designed to simplify how Social Security receives wage and employment information for people receiving Social Security Disability Insurance, SSDI, or Supplemental Security Income, SSI. By streamlining the reporting process, PIE helps ensure your benefits remain accurate and up to date. 
Next slide, please. What is PIE, and how does it work? PIE is an automated way for Social Security to get wage and employment information directly from your employer's payroll data provider or PDP. Currently, SSA uses Equifax as its PDP. If you give permission for Social Security to get your wages through PIE and your employer uses a PDP like Equifax, you don't need to report your wages each month. The PDP will send your employment and wage details for the previous month directly to Social Security. This means your SSI payments can be updated automatically if your wages change. And Social Security staff will be alerted if they need to review your work status for SSDI benefits. If there's ever a change in how you should report your wages, such as your employer no longer uses the PDP, or if you revoke your authorization for Social Security to obtain your wage information through PIE, SSA will send you a written notice. This notice comes directly from SSA, either by mail to your address on record, or electronically through your my Social Security account if you opted in for electronic communications. The notice will explain the reason for the change and provide instructions on how you should report your wages going forward. 

Next slide, please. There are several benefits to using PIE. First, it makes reporting easier because automatic reports are sent by employers who use the PDP, so you may not need to report your wages yourself. Second, it protects you from penalties if there are wage reporting errors. Third, it provides Social Security with timely, accurate, and up-to-date wage and employment information. And finally, it helps prevent payment mistakes and reduces paperwork. 
Next slide, please. How does PIE affect SSDI and SSI? With your permission, PIE gives Social Security direct access to your wage and employment information. You're protected from certain penalties if the PDP reports your wage information incorrectly. For SSDI, Social Security can quickly determine if your earnings exceed the allowed limit, which may affect your benefits. For SSI, PIE automates and speeds up wage processing. If your employer uses a PDP, you may not need to report your wages yourself. 
Next slide, please. Giving permission for PIE is your choice, and you usually only need to do it once while you receive benefits. Social Security will let you know when PIE wage reporting starts or stops, which employers are included, and if you need to change how you report your wages. Social Security asks for permission when you apply for SSDI or SSI, have redeterminations, request expedited reinstatements, or have work reviews or work-related changes. You can also give permission for PIE at any time. 

Next slide, please. To submit your permission for PIE, you have a couple of options. You can call Social Security at 1-800-772-1213, or you can fill out form SSA-8240. This form is available on the forms page at ssa.gov. If you already have a my Social Security account, you can log in, select the "Upload Documents" link, search for a form SSA-8240, and complete and submit the form electronically with your electronic signature. If you don't have a my Social Security account yet, I encourage you to create one. Once your account is set up, you can easily access, complete, and submit the SSA-8240 form online. Using your my Social Security account is a fast and secure way to provide your permission and start benefiting from PIE. 
Next slide, please. What information must I still report? You should keep reporting your monthly wage changes until Social Security tells you PIE covers your employer. You also need to report wages for employers not participating in PIE. Always report immediately if you get better from your medical condition, start or stop a job, or get a new employer. If you receive SSI, also report changes in other income, resources, living arrangements, or work expenses related to your medical conditions. 

Next slide, please. If you disagree with the wage or employment information on notices, contact Social Security immediately to update your record. You can also contact the PDP, which is Equifax, or your employer to correct the information. These notices inform you about the wage or employment information received through PIE. They are sent when SSA receives wage data from your employer's PDP and uses this information to determine your SSI or SSDI benefits. The notices detail the wage and employment information that SSA has received and used in your benefits calculation. If there is a discrepancy, the notice provides instructions on how to address the issue and includes contact information for Equifax so you can reach out to correct any errors. These notices are sent by mail to your address on record or electronically through your my Social Security account, if you opted in for electronic communications. 
Next slide, please. You can cancel your permission for PIE any time in writing, using that SSA-8240 form, or by contacting Social Security. Canceling does not change your eligibility or payments, but you must report everything yourself again, and you lose penalty protection. Social Security will send you a letter notifying you of your responsibilities if you cancel. 
Next slide, please. Why should I enroll in PIE? Enrolling in PIE makes wage reporting easier and saves you time. It helps keep your benefits accurate and up to date and lowers the chances of mistakes and penalties. If you're ready to sign up, call 1-800-772-1213. Or visit ssa.gov. If you already have a my Social Security account, you can use it to complete and submit the authorization form SSA-8240 electronically. If you don't have an account yet, I encourage you to create one. It's a fast and secure way to provide your permission and start benefiting from PIE. That concludes my presentation on Payroll Information Exchange, PIE. Thank you for your attention. And now I'm going to go back to you, Derek.

Derek >> This is Derek speaking. Thank you so much, Danelle, for covering the Payroll Information Exchange. And as we turn the slides now to our second Q&A, I'm going to stick with you for some follow-up questions. And then we'll get Ray back in here. Before I do that, I just want to refer folks who were following Danelle's presentation and want to get some follow-up resources. Inside of the Web Links pod, we have a few. Item number 14 is from that slide that was titled, "How Can I Submit My Permission for PIE?" That form SSA-8240, that's the link at item number 14 in the Web Links pod. Then there was another reference to the SSA website going to ssa.gov. That, of course, is in the Web Links pod as well. And then item number 17 is, What Is PIE?" And you can get access to some more details there. You can go ahead and copy those links if you want or open them up in another browser. We'll also provide that as follow-up information to today's webinar. Okay, Danelle, thanks a lot for bringing the Payroll Information Exchange to us in our first WISE webinar. We appreciate all the information. We have a couple of questions from folks that have come in. And so just to be clear on this one is, you know, it's, "Do I still need to report my wages?" And I'm not exactly sure if they mean if they sign up with PIE, do they still need to report their wages? But I'm going to assume that. So if somebody signs up with PIE, is it all set? Do they need to still do that? Or can you bring a little bit more clarity for us there?

Danelle >> Yes. You should continue to report your monthly wage changes until Social Security notifies you that your employer is covered by PIE. If your employer does not participate in PIE, you must keep reporting your wages yourself. Additionally, you must always report immediately if you start or stop a job, get a new employer, or if there are other changes that can affect your benefits.

Derek >> Thanks, Danelle. This is Derek again. So, employer participation, it takes two, right, is important. Is there a recommendation? Like, should somebody who wants their employee to participate and they've given their personal permission to participate, can they talk to their employer about this, or do you not recommend that?

Danelle >> That, I don't know. I just know that some employers participate, and some employers don't. And when someone signs up, enrolls in PIE, we will send a notice letting you know if the employer participates and if they need to continue to report their wages, or they no longer need to report their wages because we're receiving it through PIE.

Derek >> This is Derek. That's helpful. So, once the employer participates, then the notice will go out. Do employers — this is a follow-on question. Are you aware if employers can, in effect, auto-enroll a beneficiary in PIE, or must that be directly done by the permission process that you identified, and the beneficiary has to be the only person to enroll in PIE?

Danelle >> That's correct. The beneficiaries are the only ones who can enroll in PIE by completing the 8240 permission authorization.

Derek >> This is Derek again. Excellent. That's helpful. We've got a couple of questions on that. So employers are registering, beneficiaries are registering, and then you'll get a notification. Here's a follow — another question, sorry, a new one that came in. "Will participating in the Payroll Information Exchange, PIE, affect the amount of a benefit, either SSDI or SSI?

Danelle >> It's a great question. PIE itself does not change the rules for how benefits are calculated. However, because PIE provides Social Security with timely and accurate wage information, your SSDI or SSI benefits can be adjusted more quickly if your earnings change. This helps ensure your payments are accurate and up to date.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thanks for that. How do employers choose to participate in the Payroll Information Exchange? I mean, this is new this year. Is that a growing number, or, you know, is this an optional program? Can you explain that a little bit more about how employers participate?

Danelle >> It is optional. That's done behind the scenes. I'm not sure of that process.

Derek >> Thanks for that. So there's a good chance that many employers aren't participating yet, but as more do, it will become easier to make this electronic information exchange match. So not all employers are participating. That's important for beneficiaries to know. But as more become aware, it is possible. We had one other question come in, Danelle, before we let you go. I wanted to ask, there's people that want to know what is meant by losing penalty protections and self-reporting, something that was mentioned. Can you just explain that a little bit more?

Danelle >> So if your earnings are reported through PIE and it is reported incorrectly, we don't penalize the beneficiary if they're reported — if PIE reports it incorrectly.

Derek >> This is Derek. Yep. This is Derek. That's super important. So I really just wanted you to repeat that. So if PIE — meaning the dataset that's out there — has an error, and the employer and the beneficiary have both signed up to participate, there's no penalty to the beneficiary because of some error in technology. So that's really important. That should increase your confidence in determining if you want to sign up to utilize PIE and hopefully, in time, reduce the amount of time that's spent in wage reporting. Very helpful. Well, Danelle, we really appreciate you joining this WISE webinar to bring up what we call the bonus question today and informing people about the Payroll Information Exchange. And we look forward to potentially having you back in 2026.

Danelle >> Thank you, Derek.

Derek >> Thank you. All right. Hi, now let's bring Ray back in. Ray, you covered our third FAQ around maintaining benefits through the Work Incentives as people begin work and then continue with work and then went into wage reporting to kind of tee up the Payroll Information Exchange. Let's go back to some questions received about the Trial Work Period. You know, people come in in all different ways, but they're basically talking about the Trial Work Period, can they start and, you know, stop and then restart, people concerned about basically their capacity to work? Do you want to review that a little bit more about starting and stopping with TWP?

Ray >> Sure, Derek. That's a really good question. You know, these trial work months, you've got nine of them, you know, and you don't have to use them consecutively. So if you go to work in January and you work through September, you could have used all of those months. I think that's a really good way to use them. But if you skip, if you work at Christmas time, you work in December, and then work next December and January, and the next one, you're still using your trial work months? My question to you is that what has that taught you? If I work for nine months in a row and I'm not sure of my capacity, my mental or my physical capacity to work, and I'm looking at starting at 20 hours, and I think I might be able to do 30 hours, the Trial Work Period is the time to determine what your actual capacity is. And I think one of the better ways of doing that is to use it in nine months in a row. If you do that, you have worked long enough so that you know how much you can work. The other example that I gave was, you thought this was going to be your job. That this is what I want to do. And when you actually do it, it seems like something else, and it's really not what you dreamed it would be. That's the time to change jobs. Let's get another job during that Trial Work Period and learn what our capacity is. Is this my dream job? And we can stick with that job. So that's a testing period for both your capacity, and is this the job that I really want?

Derek >> Thanks, Ray. Appreciate that. You know, there's a lot of different reasons that people stop. And I think knowing that the flexibility is there should encourage people who might not be interested in starting to use that flexibility. So I appreciate you always including that in the session. You know, one of the themes that came up as well was about reporting earnings. Do people, beneficiaries that are participating, need to report earnings from work during the Trial Work Period to Social Security? Like, how does reporting wages work during Trial Work Periods in months?

Ray >> All right. Well, you have to report any wages that you are earning in any month. So we're going to report December wages in January, because we don't know until December 31. Now, if you have earned more than $1160 this year, I think it's going up to 1220 next year, but if you have earned more than that, you use a trial work month. So remember, I said 1160 in 2025. If I report my wages and they're $1000, if I'm on SSDI, remember, trial works only SSDI, nothing happens. If I earn $1200, I use a trial work month. So reporting is letting Social Security determine based on what you have reported for your wages, did you use a trial work month or not. Very important for these reports to be timely so that Social Security can make that decision real quick.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thanks, Ray. One more on the Trial Work Period. Somebody heard you describing it and then said, "I receive SSI. Can I participate in the Trial Work Period?"

Ray >> Well, the answer is no. SSI is a very different program, has very different income rules. You know, that's basically — SSI is determined based on a mathematical formula. So if you do earn money in a month, chances are it's going to be used to reduce your SSI. Now, that's nothing to fear because SSI is considering less than half of what you earned. If I earn $1000 in December, Social Security is going to care about less than $500 of that. So the result being your SSI goes down a bit, but your monthly income between SSI and earnings has gone way up.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thanks for that, Ray. So, we need to turn to wrap up now, Ray. We've covered three of the most frequently asked questions. But in my mind, I think one of the questions that we always know is out there is, "Should I try the Ticket to Work Program? Is this a good match for me?" If somebody's listening right now and they're thinking about that, any advice, Ray?

Ray >> If you're wondering and you're thinking about it, try it. You know, the question is, how do you explore? You know, and we've got some tips coming up for you to show you that. But you can start this and open that door a crack, again, without any obligation to see if it's right for you. The only way you're going to get an answer to those questions is try it. Find out from a benefits planner what happens if I earn $2000 a month. Look at some of the other providers. Based on the limitations imposed by my disability, are there part-time jobs within a reasonable commute in my community that I can do? You know. And get the information. You know, the employment team that you have is put in place to give you an informed choice. And I tell every benefits plan that I train that if you put the best plan together for somebody and they then understand and say, "No, I'm not ready to work." We've done our job. You made an informed choice. That's what we're all about. So open the door, find out what you can, and then decide is work right for you.

Derek >> Ray, thank you so much. I appreciate your presentation today addressing the frequently asked questions and also acknowledge Danelle as our other presenter. We appreciate wrapping up the year with this content. And now I need to wrap up today's webinar. I'd like to take a moment to recognize our attendees for being here and asking so many great questions. You've taken a great first step towards your future and a path to financial independence. And with that, we want to leave you with some resources. First, how to get started? There is no wrong point of entry, as Ray has said. The Ticket to Work Program has resources to get you started. You can call the Ticket to Work Help Line at 1-866-968-7842, or our TTY line, 1-866-833-2967. That's for individuals who are deaf, hard-of-hearing, or have speech and communication disabilities. Of course, you can visit our website at choosework.ssa.gov and explore there, and access our other WISE webinars on demand too, and use that find help tool at the Choose Work website, forward slash find help. All great ways to start. You choose which path to take. We also encourage you to connect with us, and you can visit the Choose Work contact page to find us on social media and subscribe to our blog and email updates. 

We encourage you to opt in to receive text messages by texting TICKET to 1-571-489-5292. Be mindful that standard messaging rates may apply. And you may opt out at any time. And a third way to connect with us, of course, is through email, sending us questions at tickettowork@ssa.gov. And last, please join us for our next WISE webinar on Wednesday, January 28, from 3 to 4:30 Eastern Time. This webinar will be Exploring a New Career with Ticket to Work. You can register online at choosework.ssa.gov/wise or call our Help Line with those beneficiary support specialists able to enroll you for the next WISE webinar. And with that, we thank you again for attending today's webinar. This ends today's session.