Derek Shields >> If you're just joining, welcome to today's Work Incentive Seminar Event or WISE webinar. We'll now cover "Debunking the Three Biggest Myths about Disability Benefits and Ticket to Work." My name is Derek Shields. I'll be serving as the moderator today. I work on the Ticket Program Manager team. Today I'm joined by Ray Cebula as our webinar presenter.
Ray received his law degree from the University of New Hampshire's Franklin Pierce School of Law. He spent 23 years providing legal services to individuals with disabilities in interactions with Social Security, and then became part of Cornell University's Work Incentive Support Center. In 2005, he joined the staff of Cornell's Kay Lisa Yang and Hock E. Tan Institute on Employment and Disability. That's in their School of Industrial and Labor Relations. He now serves as the Program Director of YTI Online, that is Cornell's Work Incentives Practitioner Credentialing program.

Moreover, especially today, we recognize Ray for his career and his upcoming retirement from Cornell University. Ray's career spans legal advocacy, litigation, training, and national leadership. As a senior attorney at the Disability Law Center and Disability Benefits Project, he litigated landmark cases that impacted national policy, provided training to protection and advocacy attorneys and paralegals in many states, and co-authored "An Advocate's Guide to Surviving the SSI System," along with many SSI technical assistance guides. He's also been past president of the National Association of Benefits and Work Incentive Specialists and received the National Organization of Social Security Claimants Representatives, that's NOSSCR, Eileen Sweeney Award.

For our outreach and webinar team working today, and for all the staff across the past 20 years working with the Ticket to Work Program, those of us that have worked with Ray as he delivers these WISE webinars, we thank you for your career of service and impact. And now, importantly, for the final time, I welcome and turn over this WISE webinar to Ray Cebula. Ray?

Ray Cebula >> Thank you so much, Derek. That was a very nice surprise, and I appreciate it all, and I appreciate all of you. All right, so let's get busy. We're going to look today again at the three biggest myths about disability benefits and the return to work, and they are myths. And we are going to debunk them for you.

And then we're going to go through some steps that you can take when you're beginning to — begin to — you're beginning — you're beginning to return to work. We want to make this safe for you and let you feel like it's okay to go to work. And I'm going to tell you, it's really okay to go to work.

So, debunking the three biggest myths about disability benefits and work. Myth one, I cannot work and receive Social Security disability benefits. Well, that's just wrong, because you certainly can. It's a very common thing to be worried about losing your benefits if you work, but we've got some good news for you. Social Security has many safety nets in place to help you try working before your Social Security Disability Insurance or your SSI, Supplemental Security Income, ends due to your earnings. And they include the Ticket to Work Program and other Social Security Work Incentives.

I mentioned two programs, and now we're going to talk a bit about them because it's very important that you know which benefit you're receiving. The Social Security Disability Insurance Program, or SSDI, is an insurance program, and you gain insured status by working and paying into the Social Security system. So if you're working and have FICA taxes removed from your salary, you are working and paying into the system. After a period of work, you become insured. That's key for getting these benefits.
Now, on SSI, Supplemental Security Income, there is no work requirement. This is a low-income program, and people need to have very low incomes and very low resources in order to qualify. Both programs have very different Work Incentives. Some of them sound alike, but they do different things in each program. So if you are going to find yourself in a position to want to talk to a benefits planner, you need to know for sure what benefit you're receiving.

I'm going to give you a tip right now. One good way to find that out is to open a my Social Security account at mysocialsecurity.gov, and it will tell you everything about your benefits, what your payment is, what type of benefit it is. Mine tells me how much I have made since I was 16 years old, every year. And the list is pretty long at this point, but that's a great way to find out. Or you can call that Help Line, which I'll give you the number for at some point during this session. Okay.

Now, what is that Ticket to Work Program? It is free and voluntary. It's a Social Security program to help you return to work. Notice it's free and voluntary. There is no charge to you for participating. There is no charge to you for the services that you'll receive while you are participating. And if you're not ready right now, that's fine. Think about it for a while.

Maybe in a month or two, you'll want to check it out because it's completely voluntary. If you choose work is not for you right now, that's not a problem. It will not impact your benefits. But I hope by the end of this, you'll feel like it might be your turn and you're ready to give it a shot or at least find out what will happen if you do. 

Okay. The Ticket to Work offers career development for people ages 18 through 64 who receive a Social Security benefit from either program and want to work. So that's how you qualify. You receive a benefit right now, and you want to work. It's going to give you access to support, resources, and guidance to take your next step to work. Part of that is going to be building a very detailed plan on what steps you're going to take to secure training, then to ultimately secure a paying job.

What does free and voluntary mean? I jumped ahead of myself. For eligible beneficiaries, there is no cost to participate in the program. You'll receive benefits planning services. You'll receive services from an Employment Network, job placement, on-the-job assistance, all kinds of things at no charge. It's voluntary. You choose whether it's your time to go to work or not.

You and your service provider choose to work together on your path to financial independence. That basically means there may be three or four different Employment Networks that could provide services to you in your specific area. You get to pick. You can interview each one of them and decide who you would really feel best working with. The Ticket to Work is a fantastic opportunity, and there's no obligation. But we do request that you participate once you sign up.

Okay, and what does a Ticket mean? A Ticket is your opportunity to get the support we were just talking about along your path to work. When you have a Ticket, you can choose to set a work goal that fits your interests and abilities, get free individualized support from a service provider, build skills, find a job, or advance in your career if you're already working.

So if you have taken the first step to go to work and you have a job, if you're looking to move up the ladder, by all means, give us a call. We can help you do that. And work towards financial independence and learn how earnings from your work will affect your benefits. That's a very important step so that you will be aware of what will happen to your benefits when you make $1,500, when you make $2,000, when you make $3,000 a month. Your Ticket isn't a job. It's a tool that can help you get a job.

So who is this Ticket to Work for? You may be a good fit for the Ticket to Work if you're thinking about working for the first time, if you're interested in returning to work, already working and want to increase your hours or earnings. You're interested in a new career. Maybe you had a career before you became disabled, and now you're interested in either changing that career, you know, or getting up another step on the ladder so that you might be able to do a sitting job rather than a lifting job.

Considering education or training, sometimes people come back to us, and if they were working on computer programming, they need more training because, you know, that stuff changes almost daily. So we can help you get your skills built up so that you can re-enter that workplace.

If you're unsure what type of work might be right for you, I hear from a lot of people who just don't know what they can do. They've been out of work for a while; they have a disability, and they're not sure. Well, I come from the school that says if you have something to sell, we can find it. And that everybody has something to sell, whether you're disabled or not. And that's your time. We can find out what might suit you.

If you're ready to take the next — are you ready to take the next step forward towards financial independence? At some point, you may work enough to not be eligible to receive SSI anymore. I didn't say you're going to lose your health care, but you might do that. On SSDI, you may begin performing what's called Substantial Gainful Activity and lose your cash benefits. Well, with planning and assistance, you can be assured that you will have more income than you did in benefits.

Other Social Security Work Incentives. There are a bunch. There are so many of them, it's going to be hard to even talk to you about them all. Social Security has safety nets in place called Work Incentives that allow you to keep some or all of your benefits while you try to work. These are programs and rules that make it easy to start or return to work while allowing you to keep benefits and Medicare or Medicaid or both for a period of time as you transition to financial independence.

They support you whether you're working for the first time, restarting work after an illness or injury, or growing your career. There are many of them out there, and again, the benefits planning person can help you figure out which ones of those you can access, how you use them, you know, how it might keep your benefits in play a little bit longer to make you more comfortable at work. Lots of different Work Incentives, and you need to hear all about them.

So your path to financial independence, the Ticket to Work and other Work Incentives work together to give you the support you need as you explore work, grow into a job, or return to employment. Here's how they help you succeed. They protect your benefits in health care. They're going to protect your health care a whole lot longer than your benefits. But it's a gradual shift that we're trying to make from benefits to independence.

Reduce countable income through impairment-related work expenses. These are expenses that are needed because of your disability; they're needed for work, and you pay for them without any reimbursement. Every dollar you spend will give you a return by keeping your countable income lower. That's a good thing. You're going to want to know about IRWEs because everybody online right now has them.
How about giving you time to get established in a job? Sometimes there's a job coach involved, or sometimes you may think you need a job coach for a couple of weeks or a couple of months to get used to this job. And we can slowly work with the job coach until the job coach is not necessary anymore.

What happens if you need a reasonable accommodation that you just didn't know you would need until you actually started working? How do you get that? How do you have that discussion with your boss? We are here to help you do that. And offer individualized guidance through Ticket to Work service providers who help with job searches, preparing your resume, practicing interviews, and understanding the Social Security rules involved with returning to work.

So why try work? What is this stuff all about? Work can provide more income, more stability, and greater independence over time. There's going to be a journey here. That's why we call it your return-to-work journey. You're going to have to take the road. It might be uphill sometimes. It might be downhill sometimes, and there might be a bump. We are here with you all that time.

Work's going to provide you with more income, and that's our job, to make sure you're going to have more income than you had in benefits, more stability, and more independence over time. When I'm talking with other benefits planners, I call that your beer and pizza money. You know, what do you want? You want a job. You want more choice. You want to go out with your friends on Friday night.

You may not be able to do that on benefits, but we can help make that happen. You're going to gain new skills, build professional connections, and create opportunities to support your long-term goals. And you don't have to do it alone. The Ticket to Work is here to support you every step of the way.

All right. Derek, that brings us to our first Q&A. Derek?

Derek >> Thanks. I've reconnected just in time here.

Ray >> Okay.

Derek >> Thanks for going through and busting myth one. I'm glad to be back with you. Everyone, thanks for your questions in the Q&A pod. It's been lit up, and we've been responding to those and collecting them too for Ray. So, Ray, we got some common questions. Let's cover those first, and then we've got a couple of unique ones too today.

Someone has identified kind of two questions similar. Significant disabilities on the benefit. We don't know which one. Has never worked, doesn't have a work history. Can the Ticket Program help them? And the second part is somebody else is very rural, like 50 miles away from a Social Security office. In that situation, can they still participate in the Ticket Program?

Ray >> Two really good questions, Derek. For the person who has no work history, absolutely yes, we can help. If you're entering work for the first time, we're happy to help you. If you're not sure what to do, meeting with an Employment Network to discuss what you're interested in, what your hobbies are, what you like to do, might very well lead us to a job that you're willing to take, that you're willing to try. But absolutely, if you have no work history, we can figure something out. We just have to start with talking to you. That's all.

The other one, the very rural person, you know, I happen to live in a very rural, you know, state. People can travel hundreds of miles to get to a Social Security office. We can do this all on video. So if you're on a computer right now or you're on a smartphone right now, you have the equipment that you need to find somebody to talk to and to have their meetings.

You know, we've learned a lot, and this goes back to the pandemic, when everybody wanted you to sit in front of me. You know, just sit down in front of me and talk to me. We don't have to do that anymore. You know, we're talking to you right now, and you're from all over the country. You can meet. You know, I've met with Jayme many times. I've met with Derek many times on video, and we can get work done. So I think that's going to help. You may not need to go to a Social Security office.

Now that the secret's out, I applied for retirement benefits and all of my Medicare online. I never talked to anybody in Social Security. So please know we can get you services. And when Derek gets to the Find Help tools, you're going to be able to find out which services, the Employment Networks and the benefits planners, etc., who can provide you services via distance. That's not a reason not to participate.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thanks, Ray, for those answers. I think there's — I've seen a few more questions that are similar to that, so I think that's really helpful for folks. We also have a group of questions that get around the nature of what level of work. Some questions, "Do I have to work full-time?" "Can I work part-time?" Other questions about, "What can I work up to without losing my benefits?"
Can you walk through really the intent of the Ticket to Work Program in terms of level of work and kind of different steps or paths that people can have with work goals to go from where they are and try those different levels?

Ray >> I can do that. If we're looking at levels of work first, you know, I mean, I kept talking about financial independence. The goal of the Ticket to Work Program is to help you become employed and eventually lose your benefits, replacing your benefits with much more income. So that's the goal, you know, one of the goals.

How much money can you work and keep your benefits? That very much depends upon which program you're receiving benefits from. SSDI, you can work until you're doing Substantial Gainful activity, which is $1,690 a month gross wages this year. That should change in January.
If you're working less than that, you may be using Work Incentives. You could be using your trial work incentive, the trial work period months. But if you're performing more than SGA after your Trial Work Period is over, you're not going to be paid that check. But there will be a safety net period that's going to let you go off and on benefits depending on what your countable income is. And again, $1,690 is that figure.

You know, while you're looking again for services, you're talking to an EN, you're finding out what work might work for you, and you're talking to benefits planners, we can use what your goals are. If you want to start part-time, that's fine. We're hoping that your part-time work will turn into a good experience, and here's the time of year, right? Mr. Walmart's going to be talking to people and saying, can you work five hours more each week through the holidays?

Very often when you're asked a question like that, if you say yes, you know, you might be able to keep those hours beyond January. Well, we have another plan. We have to amend your plan. See what that is doing to your wages. And again, there are safety nets. All along the way. There are safety nets after you are terminated because you're working too much. And I haven't talked about health care yet. I'm only talking about the cash benefits.

So there are lots of plans that we can make. And, you know, I've got to be honest with you that I have helped people stay below SGA because they were uncomfortable losing their benefits, with the goal of eventually getting off of benefits. Once they saw that everything that I was telling them was happening, the fear of going up and losing that cash goes away because I can promise that you'll always have more. And I think that's all, Derek. That's a question that could go on for days.

Derek >> This is Derek. Thank you, Ray. I think that's helpful. I do have a couple follow-ups. First, one comes back to Ticket Program eligibility, and I'm going to respond to this question. Ray mentioned it's ages from 18 through 64. We get a lot of questions. What happens if you were, you know, at 64 and considering it or over 64 and 65?

So if you're 65 or beyond and haven't participated in the program, you're not eligible for the Ticket to Work Program. I would point you to the US Department of Labor. They have a program called the Senior Community Service Employment Program. It is for part-time work, but it is for people that are 55 and older. There are some other eligibility requirements. But if you're over 65 and here and looking for something, check out the Senior Community Service Employment Program at the US Department of Labor.

The second follow-up, Ray, you started talking about the Trial Work Period and SGA. We started getting into some acronyms here. Can you repeat who the Trial Work Period is going back to the disability benefit programs that you described? We had SSDI and SSI. Who can use the Trial Work Period, and describe that one more time so folks that are new to it have a good grasp of it?

Ray >> Okay. SSDI recipients and other Title II, Title II of the Social Security Act. So we have childhood disability benefits, and disabled widows can all use the trial work period. Now, that's a period of nine months where you can earn whatever you want, try more than one job if you want to. And regardless of how much you earn, you will still receive your full benefits.

Again, this is where Substantial Gainful Activity, SGA, comes into play. You know, we're looking at actually the Trial Work Period. It's around $1,200. I'm thinking $1,210 a month. You will use a month. So once you get all nine months, then we look at SGA. If you're performing SGA, your benefits are suspended. If you're not, they continue. And then you have a 36-month period where you can go off and on benefits, depending upon how much you're working.

SGA is $1,690 countable wages. So we're going to use all the Work Incentives to reduce your gross wages to countable. And some of these Impairment-Related Work Expenses that we talked about can be very costly. You can imagine how much money we could use to deduct from your gross wages to determine whether or not you're eligible for a payment.

Very important, again, the TWP, the Trial Work Period, is for SSDI, folks. SSI, totally different program. It's needs-based. It's basically a federal welfare program. So as you start earning, it could begin affecting your benefits. If you earn over — if you earn $100 a month, it's going to impact your benefits. But I've got to tell you, on the SSI side, if you work, you will never have less than what you had on SSI. There is always more, because the regular formula for SSI shows you that Social Security cares only about less than half of your earnings. So there's always going to be more money there.

You know, the average — let's go back to SSDI for a minute. The average benefit is about $1,750 a month. And SGA is $1,690. It's not hard to earn that much money given some states that have fairly high minimum wage rules. So, you know, I want to promise you, but I know someone's going to tell me about a pothole they fell into, but I can next to promise you that there is a plan for you that will show you more money and the safety nets in the future that will protect you should you need to come back on benefits.

Derek >> Thank you, Ray. This is Derek again. The next questions that have come in, we have two — kind of coming in pairs today. And they're both about previous program participants. The first one is, "I tried the Ticket Program in the past, but during that process, working with a service provider, I ended up not working." That question is, "Can I use the program and, again, can I participate again?"

Ray >> Okay, that's possible. I mean, you have one Ticket. And I know Social Security doesn't like me talking about the value of the Tickets. But if you tried, worked with somebody for a short time, and then didn't go to work, that Ticket may still be alive. And we'll get to that 1-800 number at some point again, and that Help Line will be able to tell you if you have a Ticket that's usable right now. So that's possible.

If you were working for a very long time with an Employment Network and a benefits planner, and then it just didn't work out, you just decided it works not for me, which is permissible, you may have used your entire ticket. So it's dependent upon the facts that apply to everybody, you know, in this situation. Derek's situation is different from Jayme's. Jayme's is different from mine. So, again, the 1-800 number will be able to get you some information as to whether you have a Ticket or not.

Derek >> Awesome, Ray. Thank you. And we'll give that out a couple times as we move forward. We do have one other question, and then we'll get you back to busting more myths. As I mentioned, it's similar to the previous question. It is somebody that was participating in the Ticket to Work Program previously and then became unable to work again. Does that transition — you know, does that previous time of work still count towards, you know, the Trial Work Period and does the earnings later today count towards SGA? A couple of questions there. Any thoughts?

Ray >> Yeah, that's a loaded question. You know, I need more facts than that. But, you know, let me talk to you about it, what would happen. If you worked with your Ticket to Work, you used your Ticket to work and actually got a job. You were using your Trial Work Period. You were using your extended period of eligibility. And once you use them once, they're gone. Those Work Incentives — those two Work Incentives I just mentioned, can only be used once.

Now, the difference is that if you work through that second 36-month period, the EPE, and your benefits were terminated because of work, you have a five-year period that's called extended — oh, God — Expedited Reinstatement. And that if your disability acted up again and you could no longer work, you could potentially have your benefits turned on. And after receiving 24 cash payments, you get a new Trial Work Period. So it depends upon where you're falling.

But as you see, we went through all of these Work Incentives. You received all of these services. It could be six or seven years later, you know, that you want to — that you have your disability. I forgot about that. I forgot about the exacerbation. But it could be close to eight years later that you decide, okay, I want to try again. And you would have the whole round of trial work and everything else that follows. Again, we really need to know. Yeah, we just really need to know your individual facts.

Derek >> Appreciate that. And it is complicated, so there are employment team members that we'll talk about that can continue to help outside of the webinar. I need you to clarify one thing. We've got some questions coming in, a little confusion. Is it true that Substantial Gainful Activity, this thing SGA you're talking about, is only work-related income? It does not include unearned income-like benefits.

Ray >> Absolutely correct. This is earned income. You have provided labor in return for money, and that's what we're looking at. How much did you earn in a month? Then we're going to use some of the Work Incentives to toss some of that income away. And then what is countable is your countable earned income.

Derek >> Thank you, Ray, for clarifying that. I think that will help a lot of folks out. That's coming from wages or self-employment, perhaps, too, if that's your bother. All right. I've slid myth two up. I'm going to send it back to you, and I'll rejoin you after you bust a couple more myths.

Ray >> All right. Thank you, Derek. 

Myth two. If I go to work, I will automatically lose my Medicare or Medicaid. Now, I've got to tell you, nothing is further from the truth. You're going to have to work long and hard to lose the health care benefits. If you receive SSDI or SSI, any amount, you will keep your Medicare or Medicaid. There are different phases, different rules, but you can keep these benefits for a long, long time.
The serious question is, on the SSDI side with Medicare, how much would you be paying for that? As your income goes up, you know, you may have to pay for these benefits. Or it could be that you've worked for many years and you now have an employer plan, and you don't need Medicare anymore. You can't make that decision alone. You've got to talk with a benefits planner. But that could possibly happen as well.
It's really hard to lose these benefits. On the Medicaid side, there is no fee for the program until you are working and working real hard and making a lot of money, at which point you may have a minimal payment each month to keep your Medicaid.

Okay, so let's get to that next paragraph. If your benefits payments stop due to earnings or work, and you remain medically disabled, you may be able to keep your Medicare and Medicaid through the use of Work Incentives or the buy-in programs. There's a little Medicare and Medicaid employment services that you can find in your Web Links to tell you more about this. These are extensive Work Incentives.
Because we know the Ticket to Work Act, when it passed in 1999, was the first time a law said you need health insurance to work. And we know that. So again, Medicare, your costs may go up a little bit more. Medicaid, you can work. Once you hit a certain threshold in your state, you then can buy in, and those buy-in costs are minimal. So there's really no fear here, because after these years of being covered, your income's going to be increasing as well.

Okay, so Work Incentives and programs to help you keep Medicare and Medicaid. Let's talk about Medicaid. Medicaid comes with SSI. 1619(b), you know, the game changer. 1619(b) is a Medicaid program. Remember that. So you're on SSI. And for those people who get both SSDI and SSI, you're still receiving Medicaid. Once you earn enough, and this year I'll give you the numbers, if you earn enough to exhaust your cash benefit, you can continue to receive Medicaid. You're considered an SSI recipient, eligible for zero dollars. So Medicaid continues to come in.

Now, the highest SSI award per month this year is $994. You have to make more than $2,025 before your SSI goes to zero. And my question to my clients is $994 or $2,026? What do you want in income per month? And most people would prefer the $2,000.
Now, when you get into 1619(b), Medicaid will continue. California — I'm not going to talk about Texas. California has a very generous plan. You will keep Medicaid until your income surpasses $65,000 a year. You have no worries. You're still going to have health care. If your employer offers you a plan, that's fine. You can accept that plan. You're still going to have Medicaid because that private plan won't pay for everything Medicaid pays for.

Now, what happens if you get a raise and you make $66,000 a year? You move into the Medicaid Buy-In. So you just switch categories of Medicaid, and they may say, okay, you're in California. It's going to cost $85 a month for you to continue your Medicaid. Now, we already know you're making $66,000 a month, and I think it's a good investment to pay $85 a month to keep these benefits in place.
In California, this continues forever, regardless of your money. In most states, it ends at some point, but you're still earning thousands and thousands of dollars. $65,000 is more than a family of four make in most of New Mexico. The average income for that family would be about $43,000. This is a good program.

Now, if we move over to Medicare, we have the Extended Period of Medicare coverage. That starts once the Trial Work Period ends. Your Medicare will be available to you for at least 93 months after the Trial Work Period. That's like seven- and three-quarter years. A long time. That's a long time. And as I said, many people at that point are offered a plan from their employer that might be better than Medicare, and they switch over.

Now, if you continue with Medicare and you use all of those seven and a half years, or whatever it is, you're still eligible. You just have to pay for it. And that's where you've been working a long time, you know, and your salary should be up there, and none of these expenses should be too much for you. You could just buy into the system. And at age 65, you're no longer disabled, you're aged, and you're eligible for Medicare anyway.

All right, so we went through all of these slides. What I want to show you is the state threshold amounts. You can use that link in the Web Links pod to find out what happens in Tennessee, how much can I make, what happens in Alabama, what happens in Massachusetts. And I think I've covered all of this.

So let's go to the next one, the buy-in programs again. They're in almost every state. I think there are two states left that don't have buy-ins, and right at the moment they can't offer a buy-in. Every state's a little bit different. As you're making your journey from benefits to work, you will have the opportunity for the Medicaid Buy-In program. Medicaid Buy-In program in your state may not mean that you have had SSI in the past. It could be eligible to everybody, anybody with a disability. So we want you to check those rules or talk to a benefits planner about these rules and see how they affect you in your state.

Again, Medicare for people with disabilities who work, that 1619(b) program, you can't be 65. As I just said, you are now aged, and you're eligible based on your age. You always, during all of these steps, regardless of what benefits program you are on, need to continue to meet the disability standard for Social Security. These are Work Incentives. Your wages need to prevent you from getting a cash benefit.
The Extended Period of Medicare coverage, you know, it's going to cover Hospital Part A. That's the one that's premium-free. You pay for it with your FICA taxes. Part B is regular health care, going to the doctors, doing what you need to, you know, you get a prescription for physical therapy, stuff like that. That has a premium every month, $202.50.

And Part D, if you're taking prescription drugs, you may have coverage for that. There are plans to help you with those costs, but know that as your income goes up, eligibility for these programs may go away.
If you have Medicare questions, you can visit medicare.gov. It is a very user-friendly site, and if I tell you I can use it, you can use it. And they also have a chat line that will pick up and have a live person answering. And that is at 1-800-MEDICARE or 1-800-633-4227. If you're using a TTY, 1-877-486-2048. And the Web Links pod, talk to someone or contact Medicare. We'll get you some more information.
Myth three. If I try working and it doesn't work out, I have to start all over and reapply for benefits. No, you don't. No, you don't. Remember, I keep telling you that your benefits stop because of work. Well, your benefits terminate because of work, not because you are no longer disabled. Those are two very different processes.

So if your benefits stopped or were terminated because of work, there's always a way back in. You know, the SSI side, it might be as simple as reporting that I don't have any income. I had to stop working. Because Social Security never said you were no longer disabled. They said you weren't eligible because you worked. We don't see many people use this next Work Incentive who are on SSI because it's so easy.

But the facts of this are, if your benefits stop because you are working and earn wages, and you stop working within five years of a termination, you might be able to start your benefits right away. It's called Expedited Reinstatement. To apply, you must have the same disability or something significantly related to that disability. It's always important as new disabilities develop or new impairments develop that we keep Social Security informed of that.

You must also not be working at SGA levels, countable income of over $1,690 in the month that you apply. So those are the two requirements. Expedited Reinstatement. Before Expedited Reinstatement, if your benefits were terminated, you needed to apply all over again. And if it took you four years to get on benefits the first time, you're not looking forward to doing that again. But you don't have to.

This is a safety net for people who successfully return to work and lose their entitlement to SSDI or SSI benefits, and work stops or falls below SGA within five years of the termination. Social Security is the only benefit program that allows that. If you lose SNAP benefits, you're terminated. If you want benefits again, come and reapply. Social Security is looking out for you for five years after your benefits are terminated.

The EXR program allows you up to six months of temporary benefits payments while Social Security is determining if you're eligible for reinstatement. You don't have to worry too much about that either. It's upwards of 90% of people who apply for EXR receive it.
You could also be eligible for Medicare or Medicaid during this provisional benefits period. Now Social Security is going to ask you, do you want provisional benefits? Well, of course you do. There's no risk to it at all. If you're found not eligible, which is a very small minority of people, you don't have to pay those benefits back. There is no risk to this. So say yes if they ask if you want them.
And that's going to wrap up the Work Incentives and the myths. You know, we said no to every one of them, and I gave you good reasons why they were not true. So believe me. Give me a shot. All right, Derek, back to you for who can help.

Derek >> Thank you, Ray, for busting those myths and we’ll get back to you for our next Q&A. And appreciate everyone that's been with us today and your activity in the Q&A pod. We encourage you to continue submitting those. When we think about achieving your work goals with Ticket to Work and a lot of the information that Ray has been sharing, we also think about how returning to work and working for the first time, you're going to have a lot of questions and support as needed.

So we really encourage your consideration of working with the Ticket Program service provider. This is a key member of your employment team, and they can help you develop achievable goals. And with that work plan, and you have those work goals, importantly, help identify those steps to find the work, the job, the career, and then maintain that employment once you start your position and your path down your new career. So these Ticket to Work Program service providers can help you really identify so many important things.

And some of you might say, you know, I'd like to work, but I don't know how to transfer my skills over to the types of jobs that I'm seeing. Or I'm not even sure how to apply for jobs now. Things are much different today. Well, those Ticket to Work Program service providers can help you kind of work through all that and identify, and some of them even have relationships with employment associations and partnerships, or they have some relationships with employers. You're going to really benefit from how they can give those services and supports to you with pre-employment, you know, preparation, at the point of application or interviewing, and, as I said, afterwards in that maintenance work. So, a lot of value added by the service providers.

Let's talk a little bit about a couple of the key service providers, and then we're going to talk about how to use our Find Help tool to find one that is going to be able to service you. And we've seen questions in the Web Links pod about how to use that. So we are taking time today to do that. Ticket to Work has two service provider options for you. Employment Networks, or what we call ENs, or State Vocational Rehabilitation agencies. And you might hear folks refer to those state agencies as VRs or VR agencies. Let's take a couple minutes to review each of those with their specifics that they can help.

First, if you haven't heard of an EN before, ENs are all across the country. They are private or public organizations that hold an agreement with the Social Security Administration to provide free employment support services to Ticket Program eligible folks. Now, some of you are with us today. If you're between the ages of 18 through 64, and you are receiving SSDI and/or SSI, and you want to work, then you're eligible for the program.

Some of these entities are public workforce systems. You might know them as either American Job Centers, or some folks still refer to them as one-stop centers. They are workforce Employment Networks but also ENs, and they can provide those very services and supports that we're talking about.

Here we list some specific services and supports that are designed to help you. Ray's been mentioning these earlier, and I'll review them again now. They're critical tools. If you're going to think about returning to work or starting work for the first time, an EN can help. And a lot of times we need that employment team to kind of be our scaffolding around us as, you know, what appears to be a risky move. If you have these partners with you, they're going to show you and help you create your game plan to really reduce that risk and give you more confidence.

First, identify the work goal. You know, what is it that you want to do? What is it that your skills are a good match for? And do you need any training in order to do that, or are you work-ready now? Of course, preparing your resume and updating that or creating a new one to list your experience, potentially filling in timelines of non-work and strategizing with you on how to portray that to an employer, and also hoping to find transferable skills from periods of time where you might not have been working, but you might have been contributing.
You know, people can gain project management skills in all sorts of ways. That could be from running a household to potentially doing community service projects. These aren't paid work experiences, but they certainly give you skills that could be transferable to make you competitive. Well, that resume could gain from that.

We mentioned preparation for interviews. This is an opportunity for you to actually potentially role-play with an employment network in framing what's the opportunity and how am I going to be able to have confidence in providing my elevator pitch and describing how I would do the essential functions of my job. And then when they come and ask you, well, do you have any questions of us preparing you for those and have a couple in your pocket.

And with a couple left here, requesting reasonable accommodations. You know, many people do not need reasonable accommodations. As an employee with a disability, you might be able to work without. If you feel that those tasks would require them and you want to bring that up at the point of interview or, you know, at the point of offer, an employment network can really strategize on how to provide a request and provide the information needed without providing too much medical information. So a great partner there as well.

And perhaps one of the most important parts of your Employment Network, some of them can provide direct benefits counseling. They have benefits counselor and Work Incentive specialists right on the EN team. And if they don't, they would be able to refer you to a benefits counseling organization to help answer those questions about how work is going to impact your benefits so you could have confidence. So ENs are really there to help you succeed with these services and supports. And we would encourage you to explore them further if you're thinking about the Ticket Program.

Now, if you are also interested, but you might need some more serious vocational rehabilitation, or that, you know, training or education, you have a work goal, but you don't have the qualification in terms of education for that, then a State Vocational Rehabilitation agency is a great point of entry into the program. They have a wide range of services. They are part of the Ticket Program service provider network, and you could assign a Ticket to a State VR agency.

They also very well may have benefits counseling embedded in their services, so you could get the benefit of both things from the state VR agency. More in-depth training and education, vocational rehabilitation, planning support services that would take you through to, you know, the point of interview and job offer as well.

So there's a lot of opportunity with the State Vocational Rehabilitation agency too, especially when it comes to education and employment goals. You know, these are the more extensive services around those areas. And they may also provide that career counseling.
When it comes to job placement assistance, you know, VR agencies have been in place for a long, long time. And they're pretty well known throughout a state. So they do have good business liaison relationships. So if that's something that sounds attractive, then you can consider that.

And, you know, they're able to, you know, if you start working and you have what they call case closure, you're successfully employed, then that state VR agency can have your Ticket basically transfer over to an Employment Network, and you could get ongoing employment supports in that maintenance mode. So you can work with an EN after a VR as well. So a couple of great options there with ENs and VRs.
And what we want to do is talk to you about, well, what is my pathway now? If you're interested in pursuing that first step, and that's talking to an EN or a VR, how do you go about finding out where they are and talking to them? And we have a few choices for you to do that. So let's talk about choosing a service provider.

First off, we do have the Ticket to Work Help Line. As Ray mentioned, this is available for you to call to request information and ask for a list of service providers. The Ticket to Work Help Line is open Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Eastern Time, and you can call them at 1-866-968-7842. Or if you prefer to use TTY, that's for callers who are deaf or hard of hearing, or have speech disabilities; you can call at 1-866-833-2967. There are beneficiary support specialists that are trained and able to help answer your questions and generate that list of service providers for you.

Now we also have another option if you prefer not to call someone and there's plenty of folks out there that would maybe rather go online and kind of have some privacy in this search, well, there's a great option with the Ticket to Work Find Help page.
And here we have some options of, you know, going to the website at our Choose Work! website and searching based if you want something that's near you by a zip code, you could look at services offered in terms of those, you know, like preparation services, like updating my resume, preparing for an interview, help in applying for positions.

Or if you're more worried about your disability type, do these people help individuals with developmental disabilities? Or, you know, I'm blind. I'd love to have somebody that has experience with job placement for people who are blind. That would benefit me in the Ticket Program. There are languages spoken options and then the service provider type, of course, an EN, a workforce EN, or a state VR agency as examples of the service provider types.

So with this, you could go to that tool and then you could, you know, figure out how to find the help you want with the tool. And if you're ready to explore, we do have a couple options when you think about it, I'm going to go through those. When you use it, you're searching for providers, you're exploring their services and supports, you're finding ones that are going to work with people either close to you because you want it in your backyard or virtually, and then you can compare your options before deciding who to reach out to. But it really lets you be in control as you, so to speak, shop for the service provider that's the best match for you.
On this screen, we do talk about the Find Help tool and the two ways to use the tool. We have a guided search option, and we have a direct search option. So if you really don't know what you're looking for, you could use the guided search to answer questions. It's a bit of a question tree, they might call it. And that series of questions helps you determine really work readiness levels for the purpose of the program and then provides you, if it deems that you got the things in place to reach out, then it would generate that list of service providers that's customized by how you answer those questions.

We also have a direct search option. And this is I know what I want, and I can generate my list by putting in the answers by selecting a menu, basically. And those results can get narrowed by how you fill that out.
And on this slide, we'd like to explore some of the direct search options in more detail. It's really kind of great if you know what you want, and it's the way to get from where you are to where you want to be. If you want to start with contacting, let's say, an Employment Network, you can select the EN option on the direct search, and it's going to filter it by only ENs, or Employment Networks.
And while this search options screen might be a little small, in the left column it says "basic information and provider type," and we have selected Employment Network, EN. That's highlighted there. And then down below, I've decided I'm a beneficiary that lives in a community inside of the New York City boroughs. And I put in my zip code, and I've selected "in-person services" because that's important to me.

So I put that in. And then specifically, that is Jackson Heights, New York. That's where we're living. So I want to have somebody that's near me. And I put in 10 miles because, you know, that's a busy area, and I don't want to travel too far, so hopefully we can find that.
Next, in the middle column, "services provided," there's career preparation services, employment services, on-the-job, and other. And I've selected job placement assistance, and direct job placement under employment services, because that's what I'm seeking. So I entered that.
And then there are some other things in there, special language, transportation, wage reporting, job accommodations. I'm not looking for that, but under "population served," I have a mental health condition. I identify as living with a mental impairment, and I select that. Say it's co-occurring depression and anxiety disorder. And then at the bottom, I'm an English speaker, and that's my preference.
So I've completed the form and want to proceed, so I select Update Results. After hitting Update Results, I get a report. On the screen here, we have the details. And then at the top of it is the first one. It's generated based on what's close to me. It's a Goodwill of greater New York and New Jersey. And while it's small, it has a primary contact and a phone number, and an address. And importantly, a link to view their website.

So I'm able to pull that up along with some of their featured services and explore further, kind of like I'm window shopping by browsing on their website. There is another option, Living Well, and then below that is Provet, Inc. So I have three options that are in a relative vicinity.

So we encourage you to use the Find Help tool to put in your customized search options in direct search. And then find, in this case, local resources. But you might also do the same thing for those of you that indicate you are in a rural or mountain area; you could put in the same thing and look for virtual options. We have national Employment Networks. We have regional Employment Networks. We have metropolitan and very local Employment Networks. There's really something for everybody out there. And we would encourage you to use the Find Help tool, practice using direct search, use the guided search if that's better.
And then if you're in this and you're like, okay, now that I'm reaching out, you can find all these links in the Web Links pod, but the Find Help link is at 12. But if you start to reach out and you're not sure what the conversation is going to be like, like how should I start talking with them?

I'd encourage you to use in the Web Links pod item number 13. It's Choosing the Right Employment Network, gives you some great questions to ask to help find out if the EN is a good match for you, and the EN is going to ask you some questions to see if they are a good match from their perspective too. So a lot of information there. We encourage you to explore that.
And as I brought up the Q&A slide, it was great to go through the service providers and choosing the provider for you. I'm going to bring Ray back in, and we're going to talk a little bit more about some of the questions that came in during, you know, busting myth two and three, and then maybe some follow-up ideas on ENs and VRs.

So, Ray, when we talk about like the Ticket assignment process, we have a couple of questions. And I already know what you're going to say because you've said this a lot over the years. But, you know, "How do I assign my Ticket and start working?" Let's say they know they want to start — they've already gone in. They're multitasking right now. They're at the Find Help tool. And they're like, "I think this is right." How do they assign a Ticket? What's that all about?

Ray >> Okay, that's a good point there. It's a great question because assignment is a formal thing. It's a formal process that you have to go through. When you're looking through the Find Help and you're looking for an Employment Network, you want to interview, talk with them ahead of time; it's a free discussion to see who you want to work with.

Once you decide who to work with, you're going to meet with that person, whether it's in person or via video, and you're going to discuss things. You're going to try to build a plan. Now, it is your plan. Your input is critical. To build a plan for you is not the goal here. It's to build the plan together with your Employment Network.

Once you agree to that plan, you're both going to sign it. You're going to sign it, the Employment Network will sign it, and it gets sent up to the program manager. The program manager then looks and sees not if it's a good plan, but rather what is legally required in the plan. And if all of the I's are dotted and all of the T's are crossed, the program manager will approve that plan. At that point, you have assigned the Ticket to that particular Employment Network.

So there is a process. It's not like walking in and handing somebody a piece of paper, and you've assigned your Ticket. And it's a very important process. There is assistance. If you need it, if you're not comfortable talking alone, the protection and advocacy agencies, or the PABSS project, is another branch. You'll find those in the Help Find there as well that could meet with you and talk about how you might approach building a plan.

If necessary, meet with the Employment Network with you. That's usually not — it's not required at all, but it usually doesn't happen. People can usually build a plan together. But it has to be done. Again, I'm going to encourage you to be vocal during these discussions because it is your plan. It's nobody else's.

And, you know, once a Ticket is assigned, it continues to allow the EN to provide you with services, be that getting your skills up to par so that you can return to the same job, or getting you upskilled so that you can get a different job in that same profession. Or if you just don't want to do that, let's find a different career path.
I think that's about what I wanted to say about assigning things.

Derek >> Ray, this is Derek. Thank you very much. It's helpful, you know, having the Ticket and assigning the Ticket or being eligible in this figurative Ticket. Sometimes people need to know, like, those steps to feel more confident in saying how I'm going to get there. I have another question for you.

In the meantime, I just want to read out the website URL for people that are trying to get it. Somebody said we had an issue accessing it, so I just want to read it out. You can use a web browser of your choice and simply search for SSA Choose Work!, and you would find a link to our website. Or you can type in choosework — one word c-h-o-o-s-e w-o-r-k.ssa.gov. I just tested it, and I was successfully able to open it after typing it.

On that site, you'll be at our home page. Hopefully, some of you are familiar with it. If you're not, please look around. Right in the middle of that home row, it says Home, About, Success Stories, and then Find Help. That's where we want you to go. Select Find Help, and then right there you're going to see these EN and workforce and VR icons. And you have option one, guided search, and option two, direct search. So hopefully that will work for those of you that are looking for that.

Ray, we have a question. "If I start working and the company offers health insurance, am I required to take it? I don't understand how that would work with all the information you just shared about my benefit insurance."

Ray >> That's a good question, and I am sorry if I confused you all, but this is really complex, which is why we have all these people out there to help. We've got to look at that health insurance plan. What kind of coverage is it? You're under no obligation to take that plan. There are considerations. Does that plan meet your medical needs? And is it going to allow you to step away from Medicare without causing a penalty to happen if you need Medicare in the future?
So if it's a good plan, if it's as good as or better than Medicare, if you're in a business that hires — that has more than 100 employees, you're all set. And you can say yes to the plan and drop Medicare, or you can say no to the plan and drop and not take your employer's plan.

Once we figure out which plan best meets your medical needs, we're going to then look at the cost. What are you paying for Medicare Part B and Part D if you have that? And what is your portion of the employer's plan? If they're offering you a free plan for a single person, you may want to consider that. If that plan requires you to pay more than you're paying into Medicare, maybe we want to stay with Medicare. So again, it's the decision that's made based on your facts, upon your medical needs, and your financial betterment. We want to make sure this all remains affordable for you.

But yeah, you don't have to take that plan. You need to consider it because it might make a great deal of difference. And there's no reason why you couldn't have both. One plan would pay first, and that's even depending upon your circumstances, and the other plan would pick up the rest. So, again, get yourself in touch with the benefits planner, talk about your specific situation, and see what's best. Derek, I'm not hearing you.

Derek >> Thank you, Ray. I was going to close, and I appreciate the opportunity to have you with us today and over the years. And as I said at the beginning, our entire team has appreciated your wise advice over the years. You like how I did that?

Ray >> I did like how you did that.

Derek >> I'd like to offer you about a minute to leave any parting words with our audience today.

Ray >> Okay. Thank you, Derek. And thanks for the thanks. It means a lot to me. You know, work gives you lots of benefits, right? It gives you choice. It gives you much more choice than does your benefit and potentially your health care. Moving from benefits to work is a risk, but I hope today we showed you that it's not as much a risk as you thought it was.
If you plan, work with an Employment Network, see a benefits planner, you are going to know exactly what this journey is going to look like and exactly when things will happen to your cash. You're always going to end up with more. That's the benefits planner's job, you know, to make sure that work pays.

The other things that come with work are just amazing. I would never have met Derek or Jayme or the other folks in the background if I didn't work. I would not have a house that's covered in dog hair if I didn't work. So I think that you owe it to yourself to just explore at this point. I'm not telling you sign up now and go to work. I'm telling you to explore.
Find out as much as you can and then make an informed decision, one that doesn't involve myths or what your neighbor says or what a friend of a friend tells you. Get facts and then come to a solid conclusion. And I wish you all well and success in your journey.

Derek >> Thank you, Ray, so much for your remarks and for your busting of the myths today and over the years.
I will now move to close out today's WISE webinar. We do encourage you to explore work without having all the answers. As Ray was saying, you don't have to have a job or know exactly what you want. Ticket to Work as a program can help you explore those options, identify your goals, and build a path towards work.

We do encourage you to get started. There are a couple ways to start. We encourage you to call the Ticket to Work Help Line at 1-866-968-7842 or via TTY at 1-866-833-2967. You can also visit us online at choosework.ssa.gov. There you can learn more about the program, read success stories, look at job resources, and we have some videos you might like too. And as we reviewed today, you can use the Find Help tool on the Choose Work! website to do a direct or guided search to find the service provider of your choice.
We also encourage you to connect with us. Visit the contact page at Choose Work!, where you can find subscription options and more ways to stay engaged. That link is also in the Web Links pod. You can follow us on social media on Facebook and X. Or you can, if you prefer updates via text, you can simply text T-I-C-K-E-T to 1-571-489-5292 to receive texts like thousands of other people do. Standard messaging rates might apply, so please check on your mobile plan. And you can always email us at tickettowork@ssa.gov.

Whether you're just getting started or looking for specific guidance along the way, the entire Ticket to Work team is here to help.
Importantly, we also invite you to join us next month for our WISE webinar on October 28 at 3 p.m. Eastern Time. You can register online at choosework.ssa.gov. We do have a QR code up on the screen. If you elect to use that, it will take you to the registration page. And of course, you can call the Ticket to Work Help Line to also register by talking to a beneficiary support specialist. With that, we thank you for joining and helping to bust three of the biggest myths about returning to work. And we wish you a good afternoon. This ends today's webinar.