>> Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to Ticket to Work, WISE, Work Incentive Seminar Event, achieving financial independence with Ticket to Work and an ABLE account. My name is Nancy Boutot. I will be your moderator for today. For assessing today's webinar, you can manage your audio by going to the audio option at the top of your screen. It will look like a microphone or a telephone icon. All attendees will be muted, and we encourage you to attend by choosing listen only from the audio menu. This will enable the sound to be broadcast through your computer. So please make sure your speakers are turned on and your headphones are plugged in. If you do not have sound capabilities on your computer, or you prefer to listen by phone, you can dial toll-free 1-800-832-0736, access code 8458462 pound. Continuing webinar accessibility. Captioning. Real-time captioning is provided during this webinar. The captions can be found in the captioning pod, which appears just below the slide you're looking at right now. You can also access captioning online by going to http://bit.ly/2HUX42G. For questions and answers, please use the question and answer pod to submit any questions that you have during the webinar, and we will direct the questions accordingly during the question and answer portion. We will also take breaks to answer your questions in between speakers as much as possible. We do have a lot of people on the line, so please be patient with us. If you are listening by phone and not locked into the webinar, you may also ask questions by emailing questions to webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. Please note that the webinar is being recorded, and the archive will be available within two weeks on the Choose Work website at http://bit.ly/WISEarchives. If you experience any technical difficulties during the webinar, please use the question and answer box to send a message, or you may also send an email to webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. As I mentioned, my name is Nancy Boutot with NDI Consulting. We also have presenters Chris Rodriguez with us from the National Disability Institute, as well as Marlene Ulisky who also with NDI Consulting. Both of them have been presenters with us before, and we're very happy to have them back with us again. Some of the topics that we are going to cover today are achieving the American dream and financial independence. ABLE accounts, including requirements and eligibility, impact on federal benefits, the 2018 changes with ABLE accounts and setting up an ABLE account. We will also be discussing Social Security's Ticket to Work Program, tying it all together and then, of course, having questions and answers. So, having said that, I would like to tur it over to our first presenter, Marlene Ulisky, who will discuss what is the American dream.

>> Okay, thank you, Nancy. And I first want to say I'm so happy to see so many of you out there today, particularly in light of the severe weather conditions in many parts of our country. I want to thank you for choosing to join us today and to learn from this webinar. We're here today, as you know, to talk about achieving financial independence with the Ticket to Work and with an ABLE account. In just a moment we'll hear from Chris Rodriguez, our Director of the ABLE National Resource Center, and he'll be telling us all about the ABLE act and ABLE accounts and some of the new changes, as Nancy said, for 2018. So as we go through this webinar, hopefully you'll sit back and you'll listen, and you'll really think about how the combination of the Ticket to Work Program and an ABLE account can change your life in a positive way. And as we go through the presentation, our goal is that you learn from the webinar and perhaps say to yourself, I can do that, or that is what I want for my future. And I think for many of us our future starts with a dream, the American dream. Some of our dreams are the same, but many are different because after all, we all are different. So think about your dream. It may include purchasing a home, and for some of you, it may be your first time, or for others you may be looking for a larger home or a home in a better neighborhood. Or it could be having friends or increasing your circle of friends. The friends who are there to support you, to help you or perhaps friends just to have fun with. Or your dream may include going on a vacation or having reliable transportation and not having to rely upon public transportation or relying upon others to get to where you need to go. It also could be pursuing an education or having your own business, supporting children or saving income from your work so that you can retire with a positive quality of life or to enjoy the things that you enjoy most. You may have thought of some of these things and thought maybe they weren't possible. But what we're here today to tell you is that you can achieve your dream, and the Ticket to Work Program, along with an ABLE account can work together to make your dreams a reality. So choosing the American Dream. Before the ABLE Act, there was limited ways to save money without the risk of losing means-tested payments and benefits. And I know in the past several months, in some of the webinars, we have said that a benefit is means-tested when you must have income or resources or savings below a certain level to be eligible for that particular benefit. The example of a means-tested benefit would be supplemental security income, or it could be Medicaid or SNAP or food stamps. But the ABLE Act changed everything. It changed the entire landscape, and it made it possible for an individual with a disability to save money to improve their financial stability. With improved financial stability there are advantages which may include an improved economic future, and for many, that may include using your Ticket to Work and getting a job and working. And we'll talk a little more about that later. It may include improve physical and mental wellbeing as a result of less financial stress. The better choices of where to live and greater levels of social, civic and economical participation. Now in a moment, Chris will talk about ABLE and savings, and he'll give you the tools and resources you need, and then later I'll come back and talk about the specific program and how it works with an ABLE account. So with that, I think I'm going to turn it back over to Nancy, and then we'll hear from Chris. Nancy.

>> Okay Marlene, thank you very much. I realized I was a bit remiss in that I know both you and Chris so well, but not necessarily everyone in our audience does. So, I would just like to take a moment and introduce both you and Chris. So everyone, you were just listening to Marlene Ulisky. She is the Manager of Financial Empowerment and Disability Benefits for National Disability Institute. Marlene worked for the Social Security Administration and for their hearing and appeals component and the Office of Disability, Adjudication and Review for a total of 35 years. She last served as an Area Work Incentive Coordinator in Florida and became an expert in the Social Security Administration Work Incentives, Employment and Support Programs. And then we have Chris Rodriguez. Chris is the Director of Public Policy for National Disability Institute, and he is the Director of the ABLE National Resource Center. Chris has extensive experience working on behalf of individuals with disabilities, both on the state and national levels. Prior to joining NDI, Chris worked for the Michigan Protection and Advocacy Services as Director of Governmental Affairs and Relations. And he has also worked for UCP National, the National Association of Council for Developmental Disabilities and the Arc of Texas. So thank you for turning it back over to me, Marlene, so I could introduce both of you. And now I would like to turn it over to Chris.

>> Okay, thank you so much both Marlene and Nancy and everybody for giving me the opportunity to talk today about ABLE and ABLE affects the lives of people with disabilities and how you can use these in intersection with many different public benefits, including Social Security and Ticket to Work to help people realize their own American dream. So I know we have a lot of information to get through, so let's go ahead and get started. So, let's start from the beginning. What exactly is ABLE? Well ABLE is technically called the Stephen Beck Jr. Achieving a Better Life Experience Act, and it became law on December 19th of 2014 after about nearly a decade of legislative advocacy from self-advocates and professionals and family members of people with disabilities all across the country. And what it does in its most simple sense is it creates a new option for certain people with disabilities and their families to save money for their future in a tax-exempt account. So we have a lot of kind of loaded words there, and we'll have loaded words in the next few slides. But we're going to break these down over the course of the presentation, so don't worry. In addition to creating that tax-exempt account, what's really special about these accounts is the fact that you get to use the funds contributed into these accounts for what's called qualified disability expenses. And even going further, the funds in the account will not be taken in consideration when determining the beneficiary's eligibility for federal public benefits such as Medicaid or Social Security and things like that. So that's extremely special because for years and years and years, people with disabilities who often rely on these various means-tested public benefits, not the least of which is Social Security and Medicaid, have really been shackled to a life of poverty as a result of not being allowed to save even the most modest of funds in an account for fear of losing these essential supports and services provided through things like Social Security and through Medicaid. And I'm excited to talk more about this and take people through kind of the details related to this Act. But as we go through a lot of information, I just want to put this out, I want to make sure folks understand that they can always go to the ABLE National Resource Center to check out what's happening, the latest information on ABLE, and we have the website there actually that's the state page. And in fact, there is 32 states that have launched, plus the District of Columbia have launched ABLE programs across the country, which is really, really exciting. So let's first talk about eligibility. I described this as a benefit for some people, or certain people with disabilities. And the reason I phrase it in that particular way is because unfortunately, not all people with disabilities are eligible to open up an ABLE account right now because there is eligibility criteria. And the eligibility criteria is really broken down into two requirements. One has to do with the age of onset. And the particular prong of the eligibility criterium states that the individual must have had an onset or first experience or disability prior to their 26th birthday. So, if an individual experienced or first had an onset of their disability after their 26th birthday, unfortunately, at this particular time, they're not eligible to open up an ABLE account. So let's say that the individual meets that criteria. There's on extra criteria that the individual also has to meet, and that relates to the severity of their particular disability. And there's a couple different ways that you can satisfy this particular prong of eligibility. The first can be that you're currently a beneficiary of either SSI or SSDI, meaning that the Social Security Administration has determined that you meet the criteria for having a disability that they set forth in those two programs and that you're already, that you're currently receiving them. So if you have, again, an onset that occurred before your 26th birthday and you're a beneficiary of either SSI or SSDI, you're good to go. You could open up your ABLE account and start utilizing the benefits that fall under ABLE. Now let's say that you meet the age criteria, but you're not enrolled or not currently a beneficiary of SSI or SSDI. Maybe you're working, so you go over the amount of money that an individual can make in order to be eligible for those programs. Or perhaps you're in the determination process, and we all know that takes some time. But yet you still want to kind of get a head start in terms of saving for your future in something like an ABLE account. Well, you can obtain what's called a disability certification, and it includes a physician's diagnosis that the individual meets certain severity of disability criteria that's laid in the ABLE law. So there's a couple different ways that you can be found to be eligible to open an ABLE account. Let's talk a little bit more about what that disability certification looks like. This is a, basically what it is is it's a disability certification which has a physician's note stating that your disability creates what's called marked and severe functional limitations or blindness. So you would have to go to a doctor. You would have to give them that particular language. They would have to sign off saying that you meet that. And then you obtain the note before opening up your ABLE account, and you actually keep it in your own files. You don't have to submit it to any ABLE program. You just sign under penalty of perjury that you have it. And you hold it if there's ever any type of dispute whether or not the individual is eligible for an ABLE account, then perhaps at that time you would be obligated to provide that. But other than that, you keep it in your files. You sign that you have and you open up your ABLE account. But again, if you're already receiving SSI or SSDI and meet the age criteria that we talked about, you don't need a separate disability certification. In that circumstance, you can go ahead and go ahead and take a look at the different ABLE programs that are available and figure out which one best meets your needs and go ahead and sign up. So what are some ABLE basics as we call them. These are basic characteristics that no matter whether there's, you know, currently there's 32, 33 different programs. That's going to grow, hopefully, to be over 40 programs within the next year. And each one can be a little different, but what we're going to talk about right now is characteristics or ABLE basics that are consistent across all ABLE programs, no matter if you're enrolled, say, in the Ohio program or if you're enrolled in the Virginia program and things like that. These are characteristics or ABLE basics that are going to be consistent across all programs. So let's talk about those a little bit. So the law states that each eligible individual can only have one account at any given time. So, if I'm an ABLE beneficiary, I can open up again, and I meet the eligibility criteria, I can open up a ABLE account in Virginia, but I can't at that point go open up another one in Ohio and another one in Oregon, right. You can only have one ABLE account at any given time. So that's important to note. Additionally, what's very important about this particular law is that it states specifically that the designated beneficiary, that's the person with the disability, is also the account owner. We wanted to make sure this was the circumstance because we wanted to make sure that this particular financial tool provides the utmost autonomy for the person with the disability over the funds in this account as possible. So we wanted them to be able to exercise a new level of financial independence over these funds that perhaps they never had before. Now oftentimes when I say this, the question comes up, what happens if that person either does not have the capacity to oversee their own ABLE account, or perhaps they just want help. They just want somebody else to help them with this account. Well the answer is, there are three types of people that can have what's called signature authority or basically be able to exercise authority over the account on behalf of the account owner, which again, is always, despite if you have a signature authority person or not, is always the person with the disability. But in order to be able to have that, you have to be what I call one of three types of individuals. So that can be, you have to either be the parent of the beneficiary, and that's if they're a minor. You have to be the guardian of the beneficiary, and that's obviously if they're an adult. Or that person, the person with the disability who's the beneficiary, who's the account owner, can give you a power of attorney, and then you could also have signature authority. So, if you're not one of those three, you're not allowed to have that privilege of having signature authority over the account on behalf of the person with the disability. Additionally, as I talked a little bit about opening up accounts in different states and stuff like that and being able to choose, it's important to note that while there was previously in the law a requirement in which you had to enroll in the same state that you live in, that's actually no longer the case. So despite the fact that you may live in the state that has yet to launch an ABLE program, or perhaps for whatever reason they're not going to launch a program, that does not mean that you can't enroll in another state's program. So again, there's what, 33 programs across the United States, that's 32 states and the District of Columbia, of which the vast majority of those states that have ABLE programs have what's called national enrollment. Meaning as long as you meet the eligibility criteria that we talked about a few slides ago, then you would be allowed to enroll in their program. As long as you're not enrolled in a different program. Because again, at the top of the screen you see, again, we can only, any person is only allowed to have one ABLE account at any given time. Furthermore, I'll just throw this in there. You are allowed to switch programs. So let's say that you enroll, again, I always use Ohio. Ohio was the first state to launch a program. So they often come to mind. If you open up an account in Ohio and let's say you live in Texas and Texas launches their program, and you just feel more comfortable having your ABLE program in your home state, then you can transfer all the funds in your ABLE account that's set up in Ohio to the Texas program. It's called a program to program transfer. But you would not be allowed to have one in Ohio and one in Texas. But what are some other ABLE basics, things that are consistent across all programs? Well, anybody can contribute into an ABLE account. I think that's one of the great things. That means a family member can contribute into a person's ABLE account. Friends of the person with the disability can contribute into the ABLE account. The beneficiary themselves, this is an important point, can as a result of perhaps, you know, employment or something like that, contribute into their own ABLE account as well. Anybody can contribute into somebody's ABLE account, however, when you add up all of those contributions combined by all contributors, it is not allowed to exceed currently $15,000 in any given tax year. And then after that tax year is finished, it starts over. It can then, you can have another contribution of up to $15,000, and it adds up over time obviously. And that $15,000 is actually adjusted for inflation periodically. Last year it was actually $14,000 and got adjusted to $15,000 this year. So that's important to note. Additionally, like I said, anybody can contribute into a person's ABLE account, again, that can be the beneficiary, the person with the disability themselves, their friends, their families, perhaps even an employer who wants to support somebody's ABLE account can also contribute into the employee's ABLE account to support them and their disability-related needs. Also, contributions can include Social Security Disability benefits, earnings from work, gifts from family, friends and others. So, in many circumstances we have what I'm sure everybody, many of you are familiar with are spend downs because, you know, for whatever reason in that particular month you don't have as many expenses, but yet you can't carry the money over because it could put your benefits in jeopardy with respect to resources. Now you can put that extra into your ABLE account so you don't have to worry about spending down on things that perhaps you don't necessarily need. And perhaps you need that money to save up over a period of time in order to make perhaps a larger disability-related expense or purchase something related to your disability. So those are important things to understand. There's also a lifetime limit. Basically, once your account hits a certain level, no more contributions can be made. That's specific to whatever state you're enrolled in, their 529 college savings account limit. We encourage folks not to really worry about this right now. The most modest limit out there right now in the country I think is around $250,000. So obviously, this program's only been available for a couple years, and if you can only put $15,000 a year into the account from all contributors combined, it's going to take some time to hit those limits. So I wouldn't really worry too much about those. So we've talked a little bit about, you know, who's qualified for an ABLE account and some of the characteristics that are consistent across all ABLE account. Let's talk a little bit about what exactly these funds that are contributed into a person's ABLE account, what can they be used for? What do I mean when I say qualified disability expenses, right? Well, qualified disability expenses are defined like this. It's any expense that relates to the designated beneficiary's blindness or disability and has a benefit to that person and that helps that individual maintain or improve his or her health, independence or quality of life. So that's extremely broad, right. So this leaves an incredible large latitude with respect to what these funds can be used for. And I wanted to make sure that it was defined broadly, because we can appreciate how different one person's needs are from another's in terms of people with disabilities, especially those that are going to have such a severe disability as to meet the criteria to be able to open an ABLE account. So to go even further, again, the term qualified disability expense should be broadly understood to permit the inclusion of even things like basic living expenses and should not be limited to things that maybe have a medical necessity for one. So it's not like Medicaid dollars where you need to go to a doctor, and the doctor has to say yes, you need that shower chair. You need that wheelchair. And then you can go use Medicaid dollars to purchase it. It's much broader. It doesn't have to have a medical necessity. You don't have to go to a doctor to get a prescription for something or something like that. It's much, much broader. And again, even includes things like basic living expenses. Additionally, it should not be limited to expenses that provide zero benefit to others in addition to the eligible individual. So, there could be, I should say, while the majority of the benefits should be obviously for the person with the disability, the account owner, if that expense has peripheral benefits to others, that's okay. But, you know, it has to kind of pass the smell test, if you will. It has to, you know, be primarily for the use of the person with the beneficiary but could have some peripheral benefits to others. We also like to point out, especially in webinars like this one, that qualified disability-related expenses could very well include and do include in many circumstances, employment-related expenses to help the ABLE account owner secure and maintain employment. So some examples of what a disability, eligible disability related to expense related to employment could be things like job coaching. It could be the cost associated with certificates, accreditations or some type of other job-related training. It could include interview preparation and resume development. It could also include employment training supports, even transportation. We know that transportation can be a huge, huge hindrance in terms of people pursuing employment. So it can include the expenses related to transportation to get to and from a person's job. So those are examples of how it could fall under employment. But again, it's much broader than just employment, right. In fact, Congress provided with different categories, I call them buckets of which perhaps its expenses could fall under. And you see right here we have quite a few of them. It could include assistive technology, things related to education, expenses for oversight and monitoring of the account. Financial management and administrative services. It could include things related to the individual's health, prevention and wellness. Housing, disability-related housing modification. Personal support services, again, transportation is a big one. Basic living expenses, and it could also include funeral and burial expenses, legal fees, and they have kind of a catch all which says it will also include any other expenses approved by the Secretary of the Treasury under regulations consistent with the purpose of the program. So again, extremely broad. People can use these funds for a wide array of things that affect their lives as a result of having a disability. That being said, it is important to note that you cannot misuse these ABLE funds or spend them on a nonqualified expense. Because if you do, this will result in not only tax penalties on the funds, but I think more importantly, it could jeopardize the individual's eligibility for their federal means-test of benefits such as Social Security and Medicaid. So it's important while it's very broadly construed, you need to make sure that you're using them appropriately or else you could have some very serious consequences. So let's talk about how ABLE Act, or I should say ABLE funds interact with federal benefits. Because this is what, at least to me, makes, you know, the ABLE Act so special that for the vast majority of programs that are out there, they do not take ABLE funds into account when determining eligibility. Now there is one exception, and that does relate to beneficiaries of SSI who also have ABLE accounts. And what the law says is that only the first $100,000 in the ABLE account is actually disregarded with respect to eligibility for SSI. And that once the account reaches or go over $100,000, then the cash benefit associated with SSI is suspended until such time as the account falls back below $100,000 and then that cash benefit, monthly cash benefit related to SSI will kick back at that time. Also, housing expenses receive the same treatment as all housing costs paid by outside sources with the exception of if you pull the ABLE dollars out of the ABLE account in the same month in which you pay for your expense, then it will actually have no detrimental effect on your SSI cash payment. So that's another important thing to know. I think that's a really great benefit of an ABLE account that you can use it as long as you use it in a certain way for housing expenses without it jeopardizing the amount of money that you might otherwise be getting through SSI on a monthly basis. Now the question often comes up, well, I get my Medicaid which is absolutely important to getting certain types of support and services that are very important through my being eligible for SSI. So what happens to my Medicaid eligibility if my ABLE account goes over $100,000 and my SSI is suspended? The answer is nothing. You are still considered to be an SSI beneficiary. It's just that cash benefit associated with that benefit is suspended. Everything else remains intact, specifically your Medicaid eligibility continues despite having more than $100,000 in the ABLE account, right. It's also important that ABLE assets supplement rather than replace benefits and services. So that's important to note. So there shouldn't ever be a circumstance where number one, you walk in and you try and become eligible for something like Medicaid. And number one, they look at you and say, well you have $68,000 in your ABLE account, so you're over the $2,000 limit, and you're not eligible. That's not allowed. Medicaid and other means-tested benefits are not allowed to take into account the funds in an ABLE account when determining your eligibility. But even further, not only can they not take it into consideration with respect to your eligibility, but for the scope of support and services provided as well. So in the same scenario, they also cannot say that well, we can't take your funds into account with eligibility but because you have $60,000 in the account, we're going to limit the hours of supports that we're going to give you. That's not allowed. Because again, Congress said that ABLE assets supplement rather than replace benefits and services provided through these different programs. So that's important. So, they can cover gaps and services and services and able some people to maintain Medicaid coverage while saving for future expenses, which is really, really incredible. Let's see, let's go ahead and go to our next slide here. So another important aspect, and I'll be honest with folks, this is probably the most criticized aspects of ABLE accounts is the fact that it has what's called a Medicaid payback provision. And what that means is if there are any funds in an ABLE account when the beneficiary passes away, the funds can be used to reimburse a state for Medicaid payments made on behalf of the beneficiary after the creation of the ABLE account. So that means that if, again if, the ABLE account holder has also been receiving supports through Medicaid, when they pass away, that Medicaid program does have the option to file a claim to reimburse itself for the funds that it spent on those supports provided through the Medicaid state program, starting at the point in which the person opened their ABLE account. Now, let's say that you're an ABLE account owner and you're not on Medicaid. Well, then you don't have to worry about this at all, and the Medicaid payback provision does not apply to you. But if you are, it's important to note this because oftentimes, as we know, the supports and services provided by Medicaid are extremely expensive. That's why we can't typically find them on, you know, on the open market for insurance or through an employer-based insurance program. That's why people have to turn to Medicaid for these specialized healthcare needs. And they are expensive. So if you've been on Medicaid for any significant period of time, it's not unlikely that those costs could wipe out the entire account after the person passes away. So we say, oftentimes we describe these ABLE accounts as an asset-savings tool. You can accumulate funds without worrying about losing benefits. But it's not so much a wealth transferal tool per se. Maybe you want to look at a different type of tool for that, like a special needs trust. We're going to talk about those here in a little bit as well. Again, we can name a few other different means-tested programs that should not be taking ABLE dollars into account. Of course, there's Medicaid, there's SSI, again, there's SNAP benefits. They should not be taking these funds into account either. We're working on getting guidance from HUD in terms of section eight housing. But these things just take a little time. So, in addition to, you know, what we've been talking about in terms of being what I consider the most significant benefit, which is the fact that these funds aren't taken into consideration when determining eligibility for things like Medicaid and Social Security, there's an additional benefit on top of that that have to do with taxes. And they go, they basically say that contributions, while they are made with post-tax dollars, the funds in the account are actually invested and the person gets to choose what investment option they want to choose based on which program they're in. And then hopefully, in a good market, good choices, those funds will grow over time. And typically, in other types of investment accounts, you get taxed on the earnings when that happens. Now with ABLE, they grow tax-free and are tax-exempt. So that's another really significant benefit. In addition to that, you know, another tax-related benefit is, again, while there's no federal income tax deductions related to contributions made into an ABLE account, some states, to encourage their folks to make contributions into their ABLE accounts or somebody else's ABLE account, they have created state income tax deductions related to contributions made by residents in those states right there. So that's something that you want to look into when choosing which ABLE account best meets your needs. And you know, when you're figuring out what benefits of being an ABLE account owner or an ABLE account contributor might apply to you. And again, like I said at the beginning, I know this is a lot of information. But we break it all down on our website. And again, there's our website there, www.ABLEnrc.org. So I did mention briefly special needs trusts. And these are tools that allow for some of the very same benefits that ABLE does, but they do differ in certain ways. So I do want to talk about those. Again, one of the major consistency between the two programs is, in both circumstances, the funds in an ABLE account and the funds in a special needs trust, both the funds in each account are not taken into consideration when determining eligibility for things like Medicaid and Social Security. So that's kind of the overarching umbrella of benefits that are in both. But they do have differences. So some of the differences include, there's no limitations on contributions to special needs trust or the number of special needs trust you can have, right. By contrast, ABLE accounts, you can only have one, and they can only accept up to $15,000 in any given tax year. And the ABLE account has that $100,000 total threshold in terms of SSI. A benefit of ABLE is, again, ABLE, the funds grow tax-free, whereas income from a special needs trust is taxable at a fairly high rate. Another very significant difference, I think, is the startup costs, right. So the startup costs to enroll in an ABLE program are extremely minimal. We wanted to make sure that these accounts are as financially accessible to as many people who are eligible to open up an account as possible. Whereas, in many circumstances, not all, but in many, the startup cost to open a special needs trust may well exceed or go over $1,000 in legal fees. You have to hire an attorney and go through a process that can be, that can be to some individuals, expensive. So, what money can I save in my ABLE account? Again, anybody can contribute into an ABLE account through a wide variety of different places where the funds can come from. Here's just a short list of some examples. So gifts from family or friends. Perhaps you're eligible for the earned income tax credit refund. So you could put that in your ABLE account. Your Social Security Disability Insurance benefits. Again, you can put that in. If you're in a circumstance where some months you're having to spend down, that would be something you could put into the ABLE account so it can grow over time. We mentioned special needs trust in the last slide, I failed to remind folks that it's not an either-or situation. You can have a special needs trust and an ABLE account, and in fact, at least in our opinion, having both if you're able to do so, the benefits that are provided by having both often outweigh having either one independently. And it's important to note that you can take funds in a special needs trust and put them in an ABLE account if you would like to. Also, savings from employment you can put in there, bonuses from an employer or contributions from an employer. Now that being said, let me, I want to stop here real quick and make sure everybody understands that ABLE is an asset-creating tool. It helps people get around resource limits. But it does not help folks get around necessarily earned income limits, right. So even if you're a person, you're a beneficiary, you have an ABLE account and you're employed, even if your paycheck goes directly into your ABLE account, right, and doesn't even go into your checking. You just set it up to where it goes directly into your ABLE account, those funds that you just earned as a result of being employed, those are still taken into consideration in terms of earned income and will be taken into consideration in terms of substantial gainful activity when determining eligibility for things like Medicaid and Social Security. They just won't be counted as a resource, meaning you can hold them. You can invest them. You can grow them, and that won't be counted. I hope that was clear. So, I do want to point out real quickly some changes, some excited changes that are coming about in 2018. Some as a result of just the way the evolution of the law and some because of some purposeful changes and some amendments as a result of the tax reform bill. So the first I want to touch on really, really briefly is the ABLE to Act Work which allows ABLE account owners who work and earn income to contribute above the $15,000 annual contribution limit. That being said, there may, they may contribute an additional amount from whichever is less in terms of their gross income or the federal poverty level. So, they could contribute up to as much as another over $12,000 worth of funds into their ABLE account from their earnings. This would make the overall annual cap somewhere $27,000. So that's a pretty big benefit. But that's only if the person is working and if the beneficiary is not participating in their employer-based retirement funds. And again, we want to reiterate that earnings that are the result of employment are still counted in terms of a substantial gainful activity or earned income and are taken into consideration when determining eligibility for certain public benefits. So, that's something that folks, it's a benefit but still doesn't get you around, unfortunately, that gainful activity stuff and earned income. Other significant changes, as I said previously, the annual contribution limit was increased from 14,000 to 15,000, which is cool. And they've also passed what's called the ABLE Financial Planning Act, which allows people to do a rollover from a 520 college savings account into a 529 ABLE account. However, those funds are still subject to that $15,000 annual contribution limit. Additionally, account owners who contribute their earnings into an ABLE account may now be eligible for what's called the Retirement Savings Contribution Tax Credit or the Saver's Credit, which is pretty neat as well. So lastly, we just want to give some information. I know that it can be overwhelming the fact that there are over 30 different programs to choose from. People often say well, you know, how do I figure out which program is the best for me? Well, we've created a tool on the ABLE National Resource Center site that allows you to compare up to three different programs at a time based off of about 10 or 11 different characteristics of those programs that you might want to take into consideration when determining which program is best for you. Just some of the things you might want to ask yourself in looking at these various programs. Number one, does my state have an ABLE program, and if so, are there any state income tax deductions related to contributions made into my state's program. What do the annual and monthly fees look like? Is there an initial minimum contribution? Are there subsequent minimum contributions to the account? Is there a debit card available, which is a neat kind of option and opportunity that is associated with certain programs but not others and can help certain people? And lastly, what are the investment options related to that particular program, and how do I feel about those. Or is that something that, you know, I'm comfortable with? In terms of setting up an account, again, we would encourage folks to go to the ABLE National Resource Center to take a look at the map to figure out which states have programs and to be able to compare them. But ultimately, you enroll online through whichever state program that you decide is best for you. Then you go to their website, and you go through an enrollment process that doesn't take very long whatsoever and is fairly inexpensive. But you can get all that information on our website, and I encourage folks to check that out, and certainly there's short videos there. There's archived webinars, all types of great information. There's even a portal there that you can enter in questions and those be, they will be sent back to us here at ABLE National Resource Center, and we'll get back to you as soon as we can. Again, my information. you can always email me with any questions. There's a little information about the ABLE National Resource Center up there, but I know that we still have quite a few slides, and we want to make sure that we have time for questions. So all that information is on the website. So again, I encourage folks to check that out when they have a second. All right.

>> Thanks.

>> So with that, I'm going to turn it back over, and we're going to learn a little bit about Ticket to Work Program.

>> Thank you very much, Chris. And before we do that, I just want to remind everybody that this webinar will be archived in the next two weeks. So if you miss any information, don't worry. This whole PowerPoint and the transcript will be on the Choose Work website in the next couple of weeks. Chris, real quick, thank you so much. That was great information. I just want to follow up with a few questions before we move on to Take it to Work. And the first is can you reexplain the effect ABLE accounts on SSI, supplemental security income?

>> Sure, absolutely. So, in terms of SSI, as I said, the funds in an ABLE account are not taken into consideration when determining eligibility for most federal-funded means-tested benefits. And the reason I said most is because we do have that exception, and that relates to beneficiaries of supplemental security income. And what that says is that only the first $100,000 in the account is actually protected. And once the account, the ABLE account goes over $100,000, then at that point, the SSI beneficiary's cash benefit, that monthly benefit, will be temporarily suspended until such time as the account falls back below $100,000. Now, as I said previously, these accounts have only been available for no more than two years at this point. So when you consider that combined with the fact that you're only allowed to put in $15,000 a year, nobody's really gotten up to the point where they've had to worry about this. But we suspect in the future people will be saving money in these accounts. And SSI beneficiaries who have ABLE accounts will slowly approach this mark. We're working with the ABLE programs to make sure that they are letting people know as they start to reach $100,000 that their cash benefit will be suspended if they're on SSI. And what that looks like and what some options might be to make sure that the account stays below $100,000.

>> Thanks very much, Chris. And then a quick follow up to that. Does having an ABLE account affect somebody who may be on SSDI?

>> Right. So in terms of how it affects somebody on SSDI, people, and as you guys know, folks on SSI do not have, SSDI, I'm sorry, folks on SSDI do not have that $2,000 annual, I'm sorry, $2,000 asset limit. And therefore, it doesn't apply in terms of, there's no amount of money that you can have in an ABLE account that would jeopardize an SSDI's eligibility for their benefits there. But there's still plenty of reasons why I think they should have it, not the least of which are the tax benefits associated with having an ABLE account.

>> Great, thank you very much, Chris. I know we've got some more questions for you, however, I want to make sure that Marlene has enough time as well. So I am going to turn it back over to Marlene.

>> Okay, thanks Nancy. And at this point, I think we're going to talk a little bit about the Ticket to Work Program. And on this slide, the question is what is the Ticket to Work Program? And the Ticket to Work Program is actually Social Security national employment program that supports working and career development for people with disabilities who want to work. For some of you listening today, I think that this may be the first time that you're hearing about the program or the first time that you learned that Social Security has such a program to help you become self-sufficient and financially independent for work. And in this presentation, you'll also learn how working and the ABLE accounts can actually work together. So the Ticket to Work Program is a program for people ages 18 through 64 who are receiving a Social Security disability-based benefit. And that benefit would be SSDI or SSI or both. Social Security Disability Insurance Benefits or Supplemental Security Income Benefits or both benefits. And again, it's for people who actually want to work. It's a free program. It's voluntary, and it's all about choice. As we go along, you'll see that you have a lot of choices to make, whether to work. And then you have choices in deciding who will provide you with the pre-services and the support that you may need to work. But why choose work? So earlier in the presentation we learned from Chris that we can deposit earnings from work into an ABLE account, and we can save towards our qualified disability expenses and our future and maybe things that we want or maybe things that we need without it affecting any means-tested benefits. But think about some of the other benefits of working. You see some on your screen. And not only will you have increased income, but with an increased income comes greater independence. It also provides an opportunity and a place to meet new people and to give you a chance to learn new skills and perhaps move up in your career. An importantly, it provides you with a means to achieve financial independence and a better future and a better quality of life. So how do you get started? Only you can decide if work is the right choice for you. We know that choosing to work is a big decision, and with any big decision, you need to understand the program and understand how working may affect your Social Security benefits or any other public benefits you receive. Know that the Ticket Program has a variety of providers called employment network and benefit planners or [inaudible] to provide free services and can help you to understand and to use the benefit, and to use the program. They could also provide you with the support you need and refer you to the supports or services that you need in finding and keeping a job. Now taking the next step. Well I congratulate you because you're here today, and you're listening to this webinar. And you have an interest in working, and whether you know it or not, you have taken the first step, which is gathering the information and the resources that you need to plan your journey for employment. The Ticket to Work Program and the Social Security work incentive, which are additional supports, can help you to transition into the workforce, will help to make your journey a smooth one. Now let's tie it all together. The ABLE Act, ABLE accounts, employment, Social Security's Ticket to Work Program and you. As you start your journey, know that there is not just one strategy or one pathway for achieving the American dream. But the first step for many include getting a job and working hard and saving money to achieve goals in your dream. Some individuals may jump right in there and work as much as they can, while others prefer to start off slowly or further their education or test the waters as they use the program. And as they become more familiar with it, there's no right way, and there's no wrong way. The important thig is that you make a decision, that you have a goal and you choose to go after it. The Ticket to Work Program and Work Incentives when combined with ABLE can help make your journey into the future a smooth one. So continue your first step by continuing to gather information, resources on both the Ticket Program and ABLE account, plan a journey to employment and to financial independence and to a planned future with a great quality of life. So please take advantage of the resources will provide you with in the next few slide, and your dreams actually can become your reality. So Nancy, with that, I'm going to turn it back over to you for resources or additional questions.

>> Thank you very much, Marlene. We have several questions. So I'd like to go back to some of the questions that we have for Chris. I just wanted to make sure that we were able to get all the information in about Ticket to Work as well. So Chris, one of the questions that we had was regarding the 26-year-old age limit for ABLE. And is there any chance that that may one day increase?

>> Sorry. I was on mute. That's a great question. I'm glad that you brought that up. You know, the age criteria actually was never part of the original legislation. As I said previously, it took nearly a decade to get this legislation through Congress. And it was really only until the end of that legislative process that the age criteria was inserted. And actually, it was a, the reason for doing so was to get the cost of the bill low enough to where it would have the support to become law with the understanding that Congress would come back as soon as possible and start to raise that age. And I'm happy to report that they have stuck by their word. There's actually a bill that is currently in Congress right now that we're working on garnering support that would raise that age from 26 to 46, which would be a significant step in the right direction. As you can imagine, it's difficult to make any accurate presumptions when it comes to how quickly things move through Congress, but I can assure you that the same bipartisan group of legislators both in the Senate and the House of Representatives are very keen on passing this, and they want to increase the age because they appreciate the added benefits that this could have on people who just happened to not incur their disability before their 26th birthday. So we're working on it. And again, I encourage folks to go to the website and sign up for our ABLE National Resource Center newsletter of which, any time there's some changes in that or if there's some progress, we report those out to folks.

>> Wonderful. Thank you, Chris. And another question that came in is do I need to keep receipts of my withdrawals from my ABLE account for my qualified disability expenses?

>> Right, so that's another great question. So the entity that's responsible for overseeing these accounts are making sure that they're used within the confines of the law is actually the IRS. So, we suspect that that's going to be done through a random audit type system. So every once in a while somebody will randomly be audited by the IRS. And I suspect they're going to ask for two things, one, they're going to say, provide me with documentation that proves that you are in fact eligible to be an ABLE account owner. You have to provide them with that information. But two, we want to make sure that the things that you're spending all the funds on are in fact quote/unquote qualified disability expenses. So given that, we have recommended to people to number one, save their receipts for these disability-related expenses. And two, jot down for each expense, it doesn't have to be exhaustive or it doesn't have to be very long. But just a couple sentences on how that particular expense helps you as a beneficiary or if you have signature authority for the person with the disability, how that helps them maintains or increase their health, independence or quality of life and how it relates to their disability. That way, if they are ever audited, they can provide those to the IRS, and the IRS can see that the dollars and the funds in the account are being used appropriately.

>> Thanks, Chris. I don't know about for the rest of the group, I'll wait and see if I see anything in chat. You did cut out on me a little bit at the end, so we may ask you to repeat that last piece, unless we hear back we'll just move on. So continuing with qualified disability expenses, what if somebody spends money from their ABLE account on expenses that don't count as qualified disability expenses?

>> Right, right. So again, while there's going to be a great number of things that a person can spend these funds on related to their disability, because the definition is so broad, there are things that wouldn't be allowed. So as an example, again, going back to the definition, this has to be expense that's related to the person's disability, is for their benefit and helps them increase their health, independence or quality of life. So let's say, you know, my brother TJ who lives down in Texas, he has an ABLE account. He lives with my parents. Let's say that he pulled ABLE funds for his ABLE account and went and bought his friend a new TV, right. So that benefit has no benefit towards my brother. He's used those funds for something that benefits somebody else. So that would not be allowed. And as a result, what would happen is number one, however much money he used to spend on that expense would be taxable. It would no longer receive that tax-free status. So he would owe that money related to that, plus there'd be a 10% penalty because he misused the funds. But more importantly, the funds that he just took out, because they were misused, could count against him in terms of his eligibility for things like Medicaid and Social Security. So they could be counted as income because he didn't spend it on something that was allowed. So there are significant consequences to misusing these funds. So it is important that folks understand how to use these appropriately.

>> Great. Thank you very much, Chris. And people are paying attention because two people already replied in the Q and A that they were able to hear you. So thank you for letting me know that. And I appreciate that. All right, so another question for you, Chris, and then we've got some for Marlene. And then I'm sure we'll have more for you as well. But the question is, can a bank help me set up my ABLE account?

>> Right. So at this time, I would say no. Again, in an effort to really try and make these accounts as financially accessible to folks as possible, they have set up a system wherein again, you enroll all online and you maintain the account all online. So, if you went to your local financial institution, you know, wherever you live and walked in and said hey to the teller, you know, hi, I want, I'm here to set up an ABLE account, they would in all likelihood have no idea what you're talking about. And you know, whether or not they, you know, opened a savings account for you or not, the funds in that account would not have the protection that the funds in an ABLE account would have. So this is all done online, and there's each individual program has kind of a call center to help people, walk people through enrollment and things like that. But from what I understand, it doesn't take too long. It's not too burdensome, and it's fairly inexpensive.

>> Wonderful. Thanks so much, Chris. All right, I'm going to turn it over to Marlene for a little bit. And Marlene, we've got some folks on the line on SSDI that have a couple questions. And one of the question is I want to make sure there are no limits on how much a beneficiary receiving SSDI can have in the bank.

>> And actually, Nancy, the question is is there a limit on how much a beneficiary receiving SSDI can have in the bank. And there actually is no limit for how much they can have in the bank. However, as Chris was talking about there are limits related to the amounts of money which can be deposited into an ABLE account on an annual basis. So there are no limits for persons who are receiving an SSDI benefit. The benefits paid for Social Security Disability Insurance benefits paid, they're not means-tested. The monies are paid from the Social Security Trust Fund, and it's based upon the contributions that you made when you were working or that a wage earner made when he or she was working. So no, there are none.

>> Great. Thank you very much, Marlene. And then another question is, if I use my Ticket to Work and cannot continue to work, will SSA stop my benefits?

>> Okay, and that's a great question. And from your question, I'm assuming that your benefits right now are continuing but for some reason you can't continue to work. Maybe you had a setback with your health or so on. Or maybe you just decided you were going to quit. Social Security will not stop your benefits just because you can't continue to work. They could stop your benefits for other reasons like if you're receiving SSI and you were over the resource limit and you didn't have an ABLE account. Or if there was a medical review that said that you improved. But stopping work is not one of the reasons why Social Security would stop your benefits. So no, if you are using your ticket, if you cannot continue to work, Social Security will not stop your benefits.

>> Thanks, Marlene. And one more question, and then I think we've got a few more coming in for Chris. Is do any employment networks provide financial services to help me choose investment options for an ABLE account?

>> And that's really a good question too. And I've heard that in the past. And once I finish answering, I think I'm going to turn it over to Chris to see if he has something to add to it. But I think if someone is actually thinking investment advice, you may want to contact your state ABLE Program administrator and ask them if they have resources available, someone that you can call or someone you can contact. Or if you already have an investment advisor or financial planner, I would seek their services. Just know though that some employment networks provide other services, quote/unquote other services, that could include financial capability services to help you understand the benefits of an ABLE account. Last month too on the WISE webinar, we heard from the American Dream Employment Network from Aiden. And one of their core services is financial wellness and has referrals for services and support to build financial capability. Now other employment networks may also provide these services. And I encourage you to explore the services of all employment networks. As you explore the services that ENs provide, either you or the EN can decide if they are what you need and whether you're a good match. And if not, you'll be encouraged to continue to talk to other employment networks. When we talked about choice earlier in the presentation, I think that's an area where you have a whole lot of choice. Now, if you're looking for other services an employment network provides, you would use the find help tool and search for other services, and you'll be talking, I think one of the future slides in our resource section talks about the find help tool. You can either use that, that's available at www.choosework.sfa.gov/findhelp. Or you could phone the Ticket to Work helpline, and that also is one of our future resource lines. Chris, is there anything else that you can add to that if someone is looking for help in choosing investment options with ABLE?

>> Right. Yeah, so we have tried to tackle that as best we can in a couple different ABLE webinars that are archived on the website. So I encourage folks to go to the website and go under the webinar section on the front page and click on that and scroll down and you'll see there's two webinars that we've done that focus specifically on advice in terms of understanding various investment options related to ABLE accounts.

>> Thanks.

>> Okay, great. So Chris, back to you for a few more questions. One person says that they don't think that their state has an ABLE program, but somebody told them they did. So can you tell them again how to find out more information?

>> Sure. You would just go to the ABLE National Resource Center website at www.ABLEnrc.org. And if you scroll down just a little bit you're going to see a map of the United States. And all the states that you see in blue are the states that have launched ABLE programs. You can click on any state there, and it'll give you more information about that program. Or if it's a green state indicating that it has not launched a program, it'll let you know where they are in terms of launching a program. So a couple things though to add to that. Number one, not all states will decide to have an ABLE program. The federal law allowed states, or allows states to build these programs. It doesn't say that they have to build a program. So that's important to note. And number two, I wouldn't be discouraged if your state does not have an ABLE program because there really isn't a whole lot of downside in choosing another state's ABLE program because like I said previously, in many circumstances, or in many characteristics, the different programs are very similar.

>> Well, great, Chris. And you must have read the mind of this next person who is happy that they can open an ABLE account in another state. But their concern is if their state eventually does have ABLE accounts, will they be able to move their account back into their own state?

>> Right, right. So that's another good question. So the law does allow for what's called a program to program transfer wherein if you open up a program, you know, anywhere, say Ohio, and then for any reason, so in that example, your state then launches, and you feel more comfortable having the ABLE account managed in your state, then yes. You would just contact that, and they would contact the state you would like to transfer to, and they'll transfer all the funds from that original ABLE account into the new ABLE account in whatever state you direct them to do so.

>> Thanks, Chris. And is it worth it for somebody to, who does have an ABLE account in their state, is it worth it for them to research other states to see if some ABLE accounts may serve them better than others?

>> Absolutely, I think so. And you can get on, again, go to the website, and you can click on. It says tools that compare state programs in bold blue letters on the right hand of your screen. And when you click that, you'll be able to compare up to three programs side-by-side to determine which one best meets your needs. And I would encourage folks to, you know, if you're interested and you're eligible, to sign up sooner rather than later even if your state does not have a program right now. Because there really isn't that much or any in many circumstances drawback to being enrolled in a program outside of your state of residence.

>> Thanks, Chris. All right, we'll give you a little break. And I've got a couple more questions for Marlene. Marlene, if somebody needs help in understanding work incentives so that they can save money, who can help them?

>> There's a lot of options for getting help in understanding the work incentive. I think one of the best ways to get, to be provided with an understanding of understanding the work incentives for benefits counseling, which is actually a free service. These are provided by a WIPA, a Work Incentive Planning and Assistance grantee who has certified work incentive counselors on staff or by an employment network who has a benefits counselor or a work incentives counselor on staff. I think sometimes the work incentives are just a little confusing to some folks. And I think that it's always best if you go to an expert and hear the information from an expert so that you're provided with a better understanding or a clearer understanding of the work incentive. Now if you need help in finding a WIPA or an employment network and determining which can actually provide you with the services that you need, you can phone the Ticket to Work helpline, or you could use the find help tool. You also can find this information on the Choose Work website. And on that website, there's a variety of great information about the work incentives. There's blogs. There's webinars, and there's videos. So I think that with the combination of all of these things, you have a lot of resources available. And I have no doubt that you will understand them once you research and you contact, and you do some of the homework to find the answers that you need for you.

>> Thank you very much, Marlene. We've got a couple more questions both for you and Chris. But what I'd like to do is get through some of our resources first. So I'm going to continue with them, and the one thing I want to talk about and what Marlene just mentioned is the find help tool. If you visit choosework.ssa.gov/findhelp, you can search for the right service provider for you. And you can search by very different ways. You can search by zip code. You can search by services offered, depending on the service you are looking for. You can also search by disability type. And you can search by languages spoken, as well as provider type. So, and that is for ENs, for WIPAs for vocational rehabilitation and also for beneficiary assistance and for workforce programs. So just to remind you again with some other resources that we talked about today. The ABLE National Resource Center. They have upcoming webinars. In fact, I know they have a webinar actually coming up tomorrow. And they also have archived webinars. So similar to the way Ticket to Work archives our WISE webinars, so does the ABLE National Resource Center. So you can go to those webinars by going to www.ABLEnrc.org/webinars. There is also on that website a roadmap to enrollment. And I know a couple people had questions about enrollment. And keep in mind that that varies from state to state. But to get more information on enrolling in ABLE, you can go to ABLEnrc.org/road-map-enrollment. And, if this has piqued your interest and you would like to keep receiving information regarding ABLE accounts and the ABLE app, you can join the ABLE NRC mailing list by going to http://bit.ly/2C0, I'm sorry, I'm going to start that over. To join the ABLE National Resource Center mailing list, http://bit.ly/2COGYZU. And the National Disability Institute also has webinars that can give you more information, and you can access them by going to www.realeconomicimpact.org/resources/webinar-archive. So get started. To learn about Ticket to Work, call the Ticket to Work helpline at 866-968-7842. For the TTY users you can call 1-866-833-2967. And please remember that we would like you to connect with us. You can like us on Facebook by going to @choosework. You can follow us on Twitter by going to @chooseworkSSA. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel by going to @choosework or you can follow us on LinkedIn using @ticket-to-work. All right, and I see we've had a few more questions come in, and the first one is going to be for Chris. Chris, are there safeguards in place to prevent an individual from over-drafting their account?

>> Are there safety mechanisms to help people not over-draft their account. That's a great question. I think it's probably best answered by whatever individual ABLE program that you think you're interested in, giving them a call and seeing what types of safeguards they have related to their specific ABLE program. There's nothing in the federal law that talks about creating those safeguard, that an ABLE program must have those types of safeguards. It does say that there's a safeguard around over contributing. So, at this time, as far as I know, nobody can contribute above the cap because the, every program shuts it down. Because if you were to provide for more funds over the cap, those caps, those funds would not be protected. But I haven't heard anything about protecting in terms of overdraft. So yeah, that's a good question. You probably want to reach out to the individual programs for that.

>> Okay, so reach out to individual programs. That's good to know. Thank you. All right, I'm now going to ask Marlene a question. Marlene, if I have paychecks, and a portion of my paycheck is directly deposited into my ABLE account, can that amount be deducted from the earnings that SSA counts for me?

>> That's a really a good question and a good try, but work always affects benefits the same whether they're deposited into an ABLE account or they're deposited into a savings account. Work always affects benefits the same. So no, working, there's not change. Working will still affect the benefits the same.

>> Okay, thank you, Marlene. And then this next question could be for Chris, or it could be for Marlene, so I will let you two figure that out. The question is, if I am on SSI, and I work, and I put money into my ABLE account, does that mean that my SSI payment will not be reduced?

>> Okay, Chris do you want me to just start with that?

>> Yeah, go for it.

>> Okay. If you're working and you receive supplemental security income, and you deposit some of those earnings into an ABLE account, again, working still affects the benefits the same. Social Security will apply the work incentives, but working always affects benefits the same, whether deposited into an ABLE account or not deposited into an ABLE account.

>> That's correct. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

>> Thank you, Marlene. And Chris, we have a clarification question. You had mentioned that a contributor to an ABLE account can get favorable tax deductions. Can you talk more about that?

>> Right. So --

>> Or tax incentives. I read the question wrong. I'm sorry, tax incentives.

>> Right, so if you live in a state that has, well let's start off with this. There are no deductions on the federal level related to contributions made into an ABLE account, right. So there's no federal income tax deductions for those. So I can contribute, you know, $500 into my brother's ABLE account, and when it comes time for me to do my federal taxes, I'm not allowed to put that down as a deduction. But let's say that, you know, I live in D.C. We pay, I can't call it state income tax, so whatever the equivalent of that would be. Let's say I live in Maryland. That'd be easier. And people in Maryland pay state income tax in addition to federal income tax. And Maryland has a, allows for a state income tax deduction. So, then if I was contributing into somebody's ABLE account, when I pay my state income taxes, I could declare whatever contributions I made into the ABLE account in terms of Maryland state income tax deductions but not federal income tax deductions. I hope that made sense. Tax law gets a little fuzzy. So those would be kind of the, in terms of the contributor's benefits that relate to tax deductions and things like that, that would be the benefit. And they do, they exit in some states and not in others, and they never exist on the federal level.

>> Thanks, Chris. And another question for you. Somebody has an IRA from their employer. Are they allowed to rollover the money from that account into their ABLE account?

>> So they would not be able to rollover, do what I would think of as a clean rollover. Unfortunately, they would have to liquidate the funds I that particular type of account, of which you would have to, you know, presumably there'd be tax consequences, and you have to pay taxes on those funds. And then whatever's left you could then contribute into the ABLE account. But again, even that would be subject to that $15,000 annual contribution limit.

>> Great, thank you. Well, I just, before we continue, I want to thank everyone for their unbelievable questions and answers. We have such intricate questions in the chat box that I know we can't answer her, but people are interested in their ABLE accounts and child support, you know, can they have an ABLE account if their income comes in from their business as a sole proprietorship. So we really have some excellent questions on the line that unfortunately we don't have the capability to answer in such a short time that we have here. But I hope that all of the resources that we gave everyone will help you to be able to get some of your questions answered. And we thank you very much for your great questions. I'm liking reading them, and I wish I could answer them for you. So continuing on. Our next WISE webinar is scheduled for Wednesday, April 25th, 2018. And the webinar will be open soon. It's not open yet. But you have this registration online which you can go to in the upcoming days. And that's choosework.ssa.gov/wise, or you can call 866-968-7842 or 866-833-2967 for TTY users. And I also want to let you know that you can register for updates on the WISE webinars by going to http://bit.ly/wisesubscribe. And we don't have that on a slide, so I'm going to repeat it one more time. To register for updates on WISE webinars, you can do so by going to http://bitly/wisesubscribe. Again, I want to thank you all for your wonderful questions. I hope we were able to answer many of them for you today. And we appreciate your time. Also, we always want to hear what you think about our WISE webinars, so please tell us what you think. And remember to take our survey. A link will pop up after the webinar, or you can also visit choosework.ssa.gov/surveys/wise. Thank you for joining us, and have a great afternoon.