WISE Ticket to Work Webinar
Debunking the Three Biggest Myths About Disability Benefits and Work
October 27, 2021

Speakers: Sarah Hyland (Moderator), Ray Cebula (Presenter)

SARAH>> Good afternoon and welcome to today’s Ticket to Work webinar: Debunking the Three Biggest Myths About Disability Benefits and Work.

My name is Sarah Hyland, and I am a member of the Ticket to Work team, and I will be your moderator for today’s webinar.

We are so glad you are able to take time to spend with us today and learn about Social Security’s Ticket to Work Program and how it can help you as you start on your path to financial independence through work.

Each of us has our own journey, and we hope you find some information today that will assist you in moving forward on your path to employment.

Let’s get started by going over some of the functions of the webinar platform so that you can interact and get the most information out of today’s webinar.

First, you can manage your audio using the Audio option at the top of your screen. The Audio option looks like an icon that is a microphone or a telephone.

All attendees will be muted throughout today’s webinar. Thus, when presented with the options for joining the audio conference, choose Listen Only, which appears at the bottom right in the audio menu. Clicking Listening Only allows you to have the sound broadcast through your computer speakers or your headphones. Please make sure your speakers are turned on or your headphones are plugged in.

If you are unable to connect to the audio with your computer or prefer to listen to the webinar by phone, dial 1-800-832-0736 and enter Access Code 4189148#.

Next, we will share some information about webinar accessibility. 

On the Adobe Connect platform, you will notice four different boxes on your screen. These boxes are called pods. We have the presentation pod where the slides appear. Below that is the closed captioning pod. In the right-hand corner you will see the Q&A pod. And below the Q&A pod is the Weblinks pod. We will talk about these pods in a bit more detail in just a bit.

If you need assistance navigating Adobe Connect, an accessibility user guide with a list of controls is available at http://bit.ly/adobe-accessibility. This link is also available in the Weblinks pod at the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. And it is titled Adobe Accessibility User Guide.

Real-time captioning is available and is displayed in the captioning pod which is at the bottom box which appears below the slides that are on your screen right now. The captioning link can be found in the Weblinks pod under the title Closed Captioning.

If you are fluent in ASL and would like support for today’s webinar, follow the link below that provides instructions to connect with an interpreter through the Federal Communication Commission, FCC, Video Relay Service, VRS. The ASL User Guide can also be found in the weblinks pod under ASL User Guide. 

We are here today to answer questions that you may have on the Ticket to Work Program. Please send in your questions to us at any time throughout the webinar by typing them into the Q&A pod. We will direct the questions to our speaker during the Q&A portions of the webinar. We will be addressing questions at three different points throughout today’s presentation, so go ahead and send in those questions and we will do our best to answer as many of them as possible.

If you are listening by phone and not logged in to the webinar, you may ask questions by sending an email to Ticket to Work. The email address is webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. 

Another resource available that we think you will find extremely helpful in connecting to different resources mentioned today is the Weblinks pod which you will find at the bottom right-hand side of your screen. This lists all of the links to the resources presented during today’s webinar. To access any of these resources, highlight the topic that you are interested in and would like to connect to, and then select the Browse To button at the bottom of the pod. You will then be taken to the website requested.

If you are listening by phone and not logged in to the webinar or don’t have access to the Weblinks pod, you can email Ticket to Work. The email address is webinars@choosework.ssa.gov, or reference the confirmation email that you received for today’s webinar for a list of available resources.

Also please note that SSA cannot guarantee and is not responsible for accessibility of external websites.

Today’s webinar is being recorded, and a copy of it will be available within two – two weeks, excuse me, on the Choose Work website which can be accessed at http://bit.ly/wise_ondemand. This link, as well as others, can be found in the Weblinks pod we just talked about at the bottom right-hand corner of your screen, and it is titled WISE Webinar Archive.

We hope that everyone has a great experience on the webinar today. However, if you run into any technical difficulties, please use the Q&A pod to send us a message. Or you can send us an email at the Ticket to Work email address, which is webinars@choosework.ssa.gov. 

As I mentioned to you earlier, my name is Sarah Hyland, and I am a member of the Ticket to Work team. I’m excited to be here with you today as your moderator. We are delighted to have Ray Cebula with us joining today as well.

Ray received his law degree from the University of New Hampshire’s Franklin Pierce School of Law. He spent 23 years providing legal services to individuals with disabilities in their interactions with Social Security. He became part of Cornell University’s Work Incentives Support Center in 2000, and in 2005, he joined the staff of Cornell’s Yang Tan Institute on Employment and Disability where he now serves as the program director of YTI Online, which is Cornell’s Work Incentive practitioner credentialing program.

And we want to thank you again for joining us today. During the webinar, Ray is going to cover Social Security disability benefits, Social Security’s Ticket to Work Program, and other work incentives, debunking the three biggest myths about disability benefits and work, putting it all together, That’s the Ticket, and some additional resources. 

During today’s webinar, we will not be answering any questions specific to COVID-19. If you would like to learn more information on Social Security and the coronavirus, please visit https://www.ssa.gov/coronavirus/. This link can also be found in the Weblinks pod. 

And with that, it is my pleasure to introduce Ray to start us off with an introduction to the Ticket to Work Program. Thanks, Ray.

RAY>> Thank you, Sarah. Always good to be here.

We are going to start out with the Ticket to Work Program and how that can support your journey to work. We’ve got a lot of good information, so I’m going to go through some of this pretty quickly.

Social Security, the Administration administers two disability programs. The first one is the Social Security Disability Insurance program, or SSDI. And the second one is Supplemental Security Income, or SSI. They sound a lot alike, but they’re really not. SSDI is an insurance program, and it’s funded by your own contributions through the FICA deductions on your pay checks. The amount of benefits that you receive depends on how long you work and how much you were paid while you were working.

Supplemental Security Income, on the other hand, is a federal welfare program. It is paid to people with very minimal income and resources. And the federal government pays everybody the same monthly amount. There are some states that will supplement that to bring it up a little higher. But that is a very different program than the insurance-based program. SSI is needs based. 

Here is the first commercial, and this is a great commercial, guys. You’ve got to get on board and sign up for one of these accounts. My Social Security account, it’s your personal window into your social security experience. That account can be set up at SSA.gov/myaccount. You’ll need a little bit of information, and once you log that in, you will have access to your earnings history. You will have access to how much you might receive if you retire today. What your family will receive. What if you become disabled today. Lots of really good information. And Social Security sends you this nice little note around April telling you to check your last year’s posted wages. And I have an account. I’m always checking, you know, my last year’s posted wage. And figure out what I might get when I retire.

There’s so much information there that’s going to make your life easier when you’re dealing with benefits planners and make it very, very quick. And you got to know that this is very, very secure. The information Social Security wants is to allow them to maintain this as a secure website. 

So, get on board, sign up for an account, and you’ll have a whole lot of good planning information.

So, starting your journey to work. You have to make that decision. You know, no one’s going to make that decision for you. It is certainly up to us in the benefits planning community to give you as much information as possible so that you can make an informed and meaningful decision. But only you can make the decision to return to work. And everybody here, Social Security, the benefits planners, are going to abide by your decision. Everything we talk about with the Ticket to Work is free and voluntary. We just hope that we can convince you to give it a shot.

Why choose work? You know, sometimes people have disabilities that are so severe they’re not able to work full time. They’re not able to work part time. You may not be able to earn a living through work, but you’ll most certainly earn enough to be better off by work. You know, once people understand the free services and supports that are available to you from starting this journey, from making that decision to try work, to getting into a job and still helping to manage your financial situation and benefits, is going to far outweigh the risks. And today’s a great, great session because some of those risks just aren’t true, you know, and we’ll talk about those when we get to the myths.

The Ticket to Work Program. What is it? It is free. It is voluntary. And that’s the important part about it. As I said earlier, this is your choice that you can participate in the Ticket or not. If you do need supports above and beyond Social Security work incentives, you can use your Ticket and get those services.

It starts with career development for people ages 18 through 64 who receive a benefit based on disability. So, you’ve got to have a cash benefit coming in. And who want to work. If you’re 18 through 64 and you want to try it, you’re a client for us.

But Ticket is going to connect you with free employment services, again, to help you decide if work’s right for you. To help you prepare for work. Do you need a training course? You know, if you want to be a plumber, you’re going to need a technical school and some internships. We can help you find those. We can help you get financial assistance to attend those. 

How about finding a job? You know, it’s one thing to say, oh, I’m a plumber now, and I – I can do all this great plumbing, but if you don’t have a job, or if you’re going to be self-employed and you’re not set up to do that yet, having a little help is a great thing. The employment networks who will be helping you locate positions to apply for are generally local to your area so they know who is looking for a job.

And finding you a job is not enough. You know, we want to work with you until you succeed at work. We will be there to provide you with on-the-job supports until you pretty much tell us, hey, Ray, I can handle this by myself now. Thank you. And that’s when we will stay away. But we’re not gone. We will always be there for questions. 

What is the Ticket to Work? You know, we want you to know everything you can possibly know before you make your decision. You know, the more information we can give you about making that decision to work, to use your Ticket, you know, the better off you’re going to be.

Now, what is the Social Security Ticket to Work Program? That link can be found at https://bit.ly/ttw-program. And there is a link in your Weblinks pod that will get you to that. It will tell you everything you need to know and what services, again, that are available to you so that you can consider that when you’re making that decision to return to work or not.

And the Help Line. The Help Line is available for you. That’s not 24 hours a day, but the Help Line can be reached Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, which translates to the end of the workday, 5:00 in California. That number can be reached at 1-866-986-7842. And if you’re a TTY user, 866-833-2967. And they can answer a couple of your basic questions and get you hooked up with some folks in your area that you can spend some time with.

Now, the Ticket service providers. I keep telling you about all these services, but who are these people who are going to give you services? So, let’s find that out now.

You have a variety – access to a wide variety of Ticket providers. They include the employment networks, ENs, the workforce ENs. That is your one-stop center, the career connection in your neighborhood. The state vocational rehabilitation agencies. They’re always there. They are participating as the rehab agency and as an employment network. 

The work incentive planning and assistance projects. These are the Social Security-funded benefits planners. We’ll talk about those. They’re going to help you put a plan together. It’s much better for you to know what is going to happen to your benefits when it’s about to happen rather than after it happens. You know, we’ll plan. We can tell you when your benefits are going to decrease. We can tell you when they’re going to terminate. And we can explain to you that they’re only terminating because you are really doing a great job by returning to work.

The last program is the Protection and Advocacy for Beneficiaries of Social Security. That’s the PABSS organization, and they’re the legal wing of all of this. If you have an issue that you face that might need some advice or some legal intervention, the PABSS agency can provide that provided that your issue presents a barrier to employment. Again, one in every state. Some of them have several offices depending on the size of the state. And they are, again, the legal wing.

Let’s talk in a little bit more detail about all of these.

An employment network. It’s a pretty much – pretty much a new term. You know, it came about when the Ticket to Work Act passed in late 1999. And these are either private or public organizations that have an agreement with Social Security to provide you with free services. Free employment support services. If you have that eligibility. You know, we said 18 through 64 and have a cash benefit. Many state public workforce systems such as the American Job Centers are workforce ENs. So, we designated those as EN and WF. 

You know, each EN, and I said VR can serve you as an EN, too, so we’ve got lots of alphabet soup floating around. They’re really varied. You know, they’re really varied in the services they can provide, who they’re focusing on, and their specialties. And you have the opportunity to talk to as many as you possibly can in order to determine who you want to work with based on the services that they provide.

So, what are they going to do? You know, they’re helping you return to work with a goal of financial independence. With a goal of no reliance on cash benefits and reliance upon your own income. The planners can help you make sure that happens. Make sure that happens. 

But what about the employment networks? What about your work goals? Do you know what you want to do? If you’re not sure, an employment network’s a great place to start. You know, we can talk to you about what your interests are. And you’d be amazed at how often somebody’s interests can turn into a job. And that job, because you are interested in it, can turn into a career. So, talking about that, seeing what you’re good at, what you’re interested in, what you want to do is very important.

How about that resumé? We all have to write a resumé. It’s all done online now, you know, and I would need help if I were to look for another job right now. I haven’t done a resumé in many, many years, and they’re specific. They can be specific to a job. They can be specific to a range of different things. But there’s a format that’s going to get somebody’s attention. The ENs can help you do that.

Prepare for interviews. I’m in line for that, too. If I were to leave my job today, I haven’t interviewed for a job in 21 years. It’s good to have practice. It’s good to help – have someone help you develop that list of questions so when the prospective employer says, hey, Amelia, do you have any questions for us, you’ll have some questions. You know, a little bit of research about that company. Let’s talk about it a little bit to show that you were taking an interest in them.

What about requesting reasonable accommodations? You know, in order to do that you have to disclose your disability and determine what you need as a reasonable accommodation and discuss that with your employer. The employment networks can help you have that discussion. You know, how to have that discussion comfortably and in a meaningful way without stirring up the pot.

And receiving benefits counseling. Many of these employment networks have in-house benefits planners who can work right along with your employment counselor. The employment network can make sure that you two are on the same page. Make sure the person helping you progress towards work and the person planning your benefits in transition are always in contact.

The ENs that are out there now that are working with folks, many of them, from the biggest to the smallest, are doing a fabulous job. So, know that you can take advantage of that free.

The state rehabilitation agencies. They are the big player in most states when it comes to rehab work. They will provide a wide variety of services to help people with disabilities return to work. You can enter a new line of work or enter the workforce for the first time. Whatever position you are in, the state VR agency can help. If you are a recipient of disability benefits, you’re a priority for Social – for the state agencies.

They’re going to give you some vocational rehabilitation. Potentially training and education. You know, that’s where you’re going to go if you want to go to community college. That’s where you want to go if you need a four-year degree to get to the job that you want to have. 

Remember, these agencies help people with disabilities and blindness. Many states have separate agencies, one treating people with disabilities and one specifically dedicated to blindness and visually-impaired folks. Make sure you call the right agency. And as I’m going to tell you, even if you don’t call the right agency, there’s no wrong way to start. They’ll get you in touch with the right people.

Partnership Plus. This is something that came about with a new Ticket to Work in 2008. And it is wonderful. I mean, it really, really is. It’s an agreement that will allow the state agency, state VR agency, to provide you with rehabilitation services. Provide you with the educational assistance. And then pass your case after they close it to an employment network who can help you with the transition to a specific job or continuing the one that you had when you were working with VR. And give you ongoing supports. Up until that point, when you say, Ray, leave me alone, I’ve had it, Ray will just sit in the background waiting for that question to come up.

This is really great. If your state’s a Partnership Plus state, you have a great option for development and on-the-job support. You know, VR agencies typically close your case after you start working. Ninety days after you start working. And what this Partnership Plus allows if for your case to be closed, again, transfer it to an employment network, and we can take more time. You have a job now, but we want to turn you into a worker. And that’s going to take some time and more supports to fully make that transition.

Now, you can look up more of that at choosework.ssa.gov/library/partnership-plus. Or use that Weblink pod to find the – the appropriate website.

The next people that you can get help from are the WIPA projects, Work Incentives Planning and Assistance. They are community agencies. They could be employment networks. They could be state rehab agencies. That have an agreement with Social Security to provide free benefits counseling to eligible Social Security recipients who get their benefits based on disability. And we’re going to talk about how your earnings and what you either are earning now or projecting to earn, how are they going to affect your SSDI? How are they going to affect your Medicare? How are they going to affect your SSI and Medicaid? And what about those other public benefits? SNAP benefits or food stamps? What about your public housing? When will your rent increase because of the new earnings? There are lots of things that you can plan for and prepare for that may happen several months from now, but you’re going to know it’s going to happen. Better to know than have it happen to you without knowing.

What are the potential benefits of employment? More than the money. You know, we realize money is very important, and the most important. But all of the extras that come, you know, with employment as well. Getting out of the house. Going out for pizza and a beer on Friday night. Joining a bowling team. Doing whatever you want to do. You have more choice. You know, you can always stay home and open up a pint of ice cream like me and watch TV.

Explaining, you know, what are these myths? You know, the street talks really loud, and we’re going to talk about some of those myths. And I hope you understand why they’re wrong, and that you don’t need to worry about things like that. The benefits planners are giving you wonderful information to use that will be productive. We don’t need to listen to the street screaming at us, don’t go to work, don’t go to work!

What about health (audio break) and services if you decide to use the Ticket Program? Which ones do you need? You know, which ones do you want? You know, this is all your decision, and the benefits planners are giving you information so that you can make a decision about returning to work.

So, who do these WIPA programs serve? They will help people. If you have a cash benefit, SSI or SSDI, Medicare or Medicaid, and you’re currently working or currently self-employed. You have a job offer pending. Or you’re actively interviewing for jobs, which means you had an interview in the past 30 days or you have another one scheduled in the next two coming weeks. 

There’s a special category we carve out for transition-age youth. If you are aged 14 through 25, even in the very early stages of considering work, people can talk to you, the benefits planners can talk to you and – so everybody, so your family understands what’s going to happen if I start earning money and bring that into the house.

If you don’t fit into one of those categories, there are other planners out there who can help you regardless of your categorization.

Now, PABSS, I was a PABSS attorney before I joined Cornell. And the Protection and Advocacy for Beneficiaries of Social Security provide free legal assistance. You know, through all – what about that reasonable accommodation issue? What if you ask for a reasonable accommodation, and you do everything your employment network told you, or everything your benefit planners told you, and your employer just says, no, you’re not entitled to that? Yeah. Here’s PABSS. Give them a call. You know, they can provide you with legal support, give you some information, talk to you a little bit more about that discussion. Or if need be, can advocate on your behalf. You know, there are certain things employers can and can’t do. PABSS knows about that stuff. And they can also resolve any other employment-related concerns. Reasonable accommodations that you really shouldn’t have to ask for on the job. Issues with Social Security. What about issues with your employment network? PABSS is allowed to step in and say, wait a second, let’s talk about this before we each go our separate ways.

Disputes with the state VR agency. Or the other WIPA projects. You know, PABSS can contact the WIPA project to say, hey, why aren’t you helping Joe? Hey, Joe’s telling me this is not working out well, we need to talk about it.

It’s great to have them in your back pocket just in case something goes wrong.

How about navigating the organizations and services to support and protect your rights? You know, I mean, come on. If we know there’s somebody there who might be watching out for us, and that we can contact if we do have a problem, that requesting reasonable accommodations is always a big one. You know, what about if you are going to school? You’re going to community college, VR is working with you. And you have an issue with having a note taker with you in class because the professor says, no, all I have in my class are students. Hopefully that doesn’t raise to the level of PABSS intervention, but if it does, PABSS is there. And any other, again, disability-based legal issues that are barriers to employment. And that runs the range of everything.

How do you find these providers? That’s real easy, and this is a great website that I am on almost daily. Choosework.ssa.gov/findhelp. And that zip code searcher is a wonderful thing. When I get I a call from somebody in Missouri, I can talk to them a little bit, I can figure out what’s going on. You prefer services in Spanish and you’re in St. Louis. Give me your zip code. And I can find every employment network. I can find the state VR agency. I can find the benefits planning agencies. And I can find the local PABSS office that’s going to provide me with the support I need. If you’re just looking for one, you just click EN. Click WIPA. And they will limit the search to those agencies. 

The other option that you have is to call the Ticket to Work Help Line. I’m going to give you those numbers again because it’s a great way to enter this journey. The Ticket to Work Help Line is 1-866-968-7842. Or for TTY users, 1-866-833-2967. Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

Okay, Sarah, do we have any questions?

SARAH>> We sure do. Thanks, Ray. Thank you for kicking us off today.

As Ray said, we’re going to pause and take a few moments to address some of the questions from the audience.

The first one I have for you, Ray, is, this will be my second time working with the Ticket to Work Program. Is it possible for me to begin a new nine-month work trial?

RAY>> That’s – that’s a great question. You know, if you’re – if you’ve already had a trial work period, it’s possible. You know, what has to happen is that you need to be terminated from your SSDI benefits because of work. If something happened and you can no longer work, you can get back into the program pretty quickly. And after you collect 24 monthly checks, that’s when a new trial work period will come into play. So, if you haven’t been terminated and reinstated, you’re not quite there yet for a second trial work period. But you know, it’s a great question to ask a benefits planner who can sit down with you, look at your paperwork, and figure that out.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. I have another question for you from the audience. What is the difference between the 36-month ETE and the 36-month EXR?

RAY>> All right. Not quite right. Thirty-six-month extended period of eligibility. You know, that happens right after you finish that trial work period. And during that period of time, if you perform what’s known as substantial gainful activity, you will not get an SSDI check. If your countable earnings are below substantial gainful activity, you will. So, during that 36 months, we can turn the spigot on and off depending on how much you earned in each month.

Of course, you have to report that each month so that spigot can be turned off.

The EXR is expedited reinstatement, and that’s what I was just talking about with the other person who answered a question. It’s 60 months. Five years. Again, it’s consecutive. And what happens during that period of time is that once you are terminated because of work activity, you begin your EXR period. Most agencies that terminate you just say get out. Social Security says, you’re not going to get any cash benefits, but what you will get is us ready if at any time during that next 60 months your income drops below substantial gainful activity. We can reinstate you and do that relatively quickly. So, rather than reapplying and waiting potentially years for that application to be processed, you’d be looking at a couple of months. So, that’s the difference. EPE happens before termination, and EXR happens after termination.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. Thank you.

The next question is, I have a job, but I have earned more than my allotted amount for this year. What can I expect to happen next?

RAY>> All right. If you’ve – I’m a little confused by the question. I’m going to assume that you’re telling me that you’re working above SGA. And if you are working above SGA and are receiving SSDI, what that means depends upon where you are. You know, if you’re in your EPE, you’re not getting benefits. If you’re beyond that 36-month period, you could be looking at a termination because of work and the start of your 60 months of EXR. If you are an SSI recipient, all that means is that you’re earning enough money so that you will not be eligible for a cash benefit. You’re still connected to that system, so you’re just going to change categories. You’ll still have your Medicaid. So, if we can find out what benefit you’re on, we’ll know a whole lot more, but that’s the general story for both benefits.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. I have another question for you.

You noted the Ticket to Work Program is for people ages 18 through 64. Once I turn 65, is there a program that can help me to continue working?

RAY>> There are probably programs out there. You know the – the reality of today’s world is that at 65, many of us can’t retire at all and have to wait until we’re over 65 or up to the age of 67. The Ticket to Work’s not going to help you. I would not hesitate going to the state rehabilitation agency. They will likely talk to you at the very least. You know, it’s going to be a little bit of tension there. You know, how much is the state agency going to spend to help you compared to what we are all going to see as far as your future expected work goes. But if it’s just some small stuff, I don’t think that should stop you from getting help from the state VR agency. 

It's going to depend upon the state you’re in, but most certainly give them a call.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. I have one more question for you before we move on.

How will I know if I am signed up for the Ticket to Work Program? Will I get a confirmation letter or an email?

RAY>> In order to get the Ticket, they’re just mailed to you. And everybody who is 18 through 64 has a Ticket, or had a Ticket. Once you assign your Ticket, if you find an employment network or the state VR agency and you want to work with them, you will put a plan together. You know, an individual plan for employment or an individual work plan depending on which agency you pick. Once that plan is agreed to, and signed, then you will get a confirmation letter that says, thank you, Ray, your Ticket’s been assigned to ABC employment network.

Just remember, everybody, that you don’t need to have that copy of your Ticket in your hand. All you need to do is call that Help Line and find out if you have one.

SARAH>> All right, Ray. Thank you for answering those questions so thoroughly. We do have more questions for you, but we are going to move forward, and so you can start addressing some of the debunking of those myths. Thanks, Ray.

RAY>> Thank you.

All right, let’s talk about these myths. This is one of the really great presentations. I really enjoy doing this. Because the street just is so destructive when you talk about these myths. 

So, debunking the three biggest myths about disability benefits and work. 

Let’s talk about that first myth. If I go to work, I will automatically lose my Medicare or Medicaid. You know, that’s just wrong. You know, it is false. Today, you know, with the Ticket to Work, and the improvements in Social Security, and extensions for Medicare, and different categories of Medicaid that are available to people with disabilities who work, you have to work really long and hard to lose your benefits. You really do. Now, that doesn’t mean at some point you might not be paying for them. You know, we all pay for part of our healthcare. You know, Medicare, you pay for certain parts of it. You know, if you don’t enough income, Medicaid might help you. And even on Medicaid, you know, I think the figure that I saw for New York, you can earn up to $53,000.00 a year and still receive Medicaid. That’s a wonderful thing. You still are disabled. And because of this 1619(b) program, you can earn a whole lot of money. And in New York, save up to $20,000.00 rather than $2,000.00.

And after that, if you no longer qualify because you’re making $55,000.00, there’s a potential that you can buy in to the Medicaid program. There are only four states and the District of Columbia that don’t have buy-in programs now. And what that allows you to do is pay a very reasonable premium for Medicaid coverage because you’re working with a disability. And sometimes that’s really important because Medicaid provides a lot of employment supports that Medicare doesn’t. And sometimes private insurance doesn’t. So, having both private insurance and Medicaid is really the perfect world. That only happens because you work. 

And so it’s going to take a long time for that to happen. You know, work incentive programs in and of themselves, you know, let’s talk basically about the SSI program because it’s real easy. If I take away $65.00 from your monthly earnings, and then cut them in half, and count only what’s left, unless we can find a couple of other work incentives to make that total even lower, you are earning twice as much money as when you were working – as you were collecting SSI. And you’re still receiving healthcare. 

Again, that buy-in program – Connecticut’s up to $65,000.00. You know, most of the states are in the thirties and forties. But you know, SSI doesn’t pay very much over the course of a year. Thirty, forty thousand dollars is three and four times that amount. And you still have healthcare. You still have healthcare.

Medicaid, we talked about that 1619(b) program and those fantastic buy-in programs. 

Medicare. The extended period of Medicare coverage.

Now what if I tell you that once you’ve finished that trial work period, if you’re an SSDI recipient, you will have access to Medicare for seven-and-a-half years. Ninety-three months at least. It might be longer, but it won’t be any shorter. The question that exists is, when might you have to pay the premiums out of pocket? And remember I said Medicaid might be available to pay those premiums. Again, a benefits planner can talk to you about that. When will the automatic withdrawal from your benefits stop, and when will you have to pay those premiums, and how do you do that?

Medicare for people with disabilities who work is there, too. You know, it’s going to watch you for a very, very, very long time. And what I like to tell folks is let’s look at the money. Let’s look at making that transition to work. Because losing your healthcare is not something that we may have to worry about for many years. Because it’s going to be there.

Here's the 1619(b) program. How do you get into that? It is an SSI program. You are connected to Social Security through SSI, but you’re not receiving a cash benefit. You lost that cash benefit because you earn too much money. You were eligible for an SSI cash payment in a least a month you were receiving SSI. You continue to meet Social Security’s definition of disability. And they’re going to review your work – your disability status every three, every five, every seven years. And if you continue to be disabled, you’re good to go.

How about still meeting the other non-disability requirements of SSI? Remember, SSI has that $2,000.00 resource limit? Well, you still have to pay attention to that. You still have to watch out for that until you get up into the buy-in where some states allow you to save a little more money.

There are other ways we can help you save money and it won’t count.

You need to need benefits in order to work. And there’s a real easy test for that. Have you used your Medicaid card in the last 12 months? Do you think you’re going to use it in the next 12 months? Can you afford to replace Medicaid with private insurance? You know, you’re – you’re going to pass that test. 

And you keep your income – or your income is below the state’s threshold. As I said, in New York, 52, $53,000.00. 

And once again, if you lose 1619(b) in a state like New York, you just pay a small premium for it.

The buy-in program, that’s what takes over after you’re out of 1619(b). So, let’s use New York as an example since I just said that.

We are going to transition from the 1619(b) Medicaid program and apply for the Medicaid buy-in program. That’s going to happen. You don’t need a new medical determination because you are still disabled according to Social Security. The question is how much is your premium? Now in New York State, the premium is set by law at $25.00. Not bad. Twenty-five dollars a month to keep all of those Medicaid services, picking up those copays from private insurance. But the state hasn’t created a computer system to collect that money yet. So, it’s basically free in New York.

You know, in my former home state of Massachusetts, it’s income based. And the top income level is set at $100,000.00. At that point, you’re pretty much going to be buying Medicaid, so the only question is do you need it or not. But, $100,000.00. That’s a great program.

Again, the Extended Period of Medicare Coverage, or EPMC, 93 months after that trial work period. I said seven-and-a-half years. It’s like seven years, two or three months. Close enough. That’s providing you with hospital coverage. With your Part B coverage which is going to the doctors. Go for a wellness visit, for a sick visit. And prescription drug plans under Part D.

You may have to pay for that if you’re working about that substantial gainful activity level, and there’s no money for Social Security to withhold that payment from, you’re going to have to pay for that out of pocket. Good issue for a benefits planner. Am I going to have enough money working to pay for that premium? How do we raise my salary expectations to make sure that can happen and I can still go out for pizza on Friday night?

Now to qualify for that program, you have to already have had Medicare and be working at a substantial gainful activity level. So, you’re doing pretty well. You know, Medicaid – Medicare, I’m sorry, comes 24 months after Social Security says you were disabled, you’re waiting until that if you’re – if that’s the plan. I mean, you can go back to work almost immediately, in month six in the right circumstances. But let’s talk about this. I already had Medicare because I was disabled and received 24 cash payments. Now I’m good to go. I’ve already had Medicare, and soon I’m going to be working at a substantial gainful activity level. No cash benefits, but I’m going to have continued healthcare. Again, always, you need to remain disabled according to the Social Security disability standard.

And Medicare for working people with disabilities. We talked a little bit about that. This is, you know, premium healthcare. You’re going to buy this, and there are going to be premiums. You need to be eligible to buy Medicaid coverage. And you need to be not yet 65. That 65 kicks you into a different category through Social Security. I just turned 65, so I am now aged. That’s the category. And you continue to have your dis – disabling impairment. And your Medicare stopped because of earnings. Before the Ticket to Work and before all of these programs kicked in, if you worked and lost benefits, you lost healthcare. Now, if you work and lose cash benefits, you’re going to keep your healthcare. So, that myth can’t be any further from the truth.

For more information period – information on enrollment periods, or to make an appointment to enroll, call Social Security at 1-800-772-1213. Or TTY users, 1-800-325-0778. 

Remember I said that there are times, if your income is low enough, where you might need help paying the premiums. So, call Medicare at 1-800-Medicare. Or, for TTY users, 1-877-486-24 – 20 – 48. That’s 1-877-486-2048. You will need to have your Medicare number, and just be prepared to share some information with that person you’re calling.

Now I’ve got to tell you. When I had to register for Part A, I did that online. And I completed the registration which was maybe ten minutes worth of my time. And I had a Medicare card in four days. Shocked me, but I had a Medicare card in four days. Two months before it became effective.

All right, Sarah. I’m going to take a deep breath, and you’re going to ask me some more questions.

SARAH>> All right. I have questions for you, Ray. Thank you.

The first question I have for you is, I have sent a letter to SSA notifying them I have returned to work. Can I begin reporting my income immediately?

RAY>> Um, I’m going to say yes, because if you try to report your work, something may not make sense and Social Security is going to look for that initial report. If you started work with a new employer, it’s very important that Social Security have that information, who is the employer, what’s your – your – what’s your hourly rate. All of that good – when are you starting? So that they can set that up in your account so that the reports of income afterwards make sense. So, you might want, I know telling you to make a phone call is painful, but you might want to make a phone call and see if that’s set up. Or you might want to look at setting up a My Social Security account and see if you can find information in there. You can use that My Social Security account to report as well.

But just be aware that Social Security, if it’s within the last month or so, may not have set that account up yet.

SARAH>> All right. Great advice there, Ray. Thank you very much. And we are going to move on to the next question.

Where can I find a list of the states that do not have a buy-in for Medicaid?

RAY>> You know, you can’t. What you can is find a list of the states that do have the buy in. I’m trying to think, we just talked about it. The District of Columbia. It’s Florida. It’s Hawaii. And there are two more out there. We just talked about that this morning. But you can, you know, Google is your friend. Google is really great, and I’m using that all the time, too. I would google Medicaid buy-in states. You’ll then get the list, and you’ll be able to tell what those other five states are. Or, at the very least, whether your state is in or out.

SARAH>> All right. The next question I have for you, Ray, is, how do you report your earnings if you are self-employed?

RAY>> All right. How do you report? You know, you can report using the same mechanisms that everybody else can. You can fax them in. You can write a letter. You can call them. You can use the phone app. You can use My Social Security. When you’re self-employed, though, you’re not reporting what your business is making. You are reporting your net earnings as a self-employed person. So, if my business brings in $3,000.00 in the month of October, what about the rent for my store space? What about the electricity? And the heat? What about my advertisements? You know, all of that comes off that gross income to make net earnings from self-employment. So, a lot of math you need to do.

Again, if you’re – if you have questions about that, that’s a really great question for a benefits planner. They’ll get you all set up with some basic math steps based on your personal experience. And then you can arrive every month at what your net earnings are and report that like everybody else does.

SARAH>> All right. Next question I have for you, Ray, is, I have accidentally exceeded the asset limit while on 1619(b). I am not on the buy-in program. What do you recommend?

RAY>> Well, you need to report that. That’s the first thing I recommend. If you’ve gone over that $2,000.00 limit for 1619(b) and you don’t report it, that situation is only going to get worse because you’re really not eligible. 

You need to then get your resources below. You’re not going to be in a situation where you’re going to be overpaid anything, but, you know, I doubt you’re going to get terminated if you take steps to reduce your resources. But you’ve really got to tell Social Security what’s going on. That’s really important to make those reports. And if it’s accidentally, it’s not a big deal. You know, accidents are not people’s faults. Purposely keeping that money, you know, knowing that you were ineligible, is then your fault. But an accident is an accident, and they happen.

SARAH>> All right, Ray, I have one final question before we move on from this question section. I have accepted a position that will begin on November 1. I have already been in contact with a counselor. Will they let SSA know that I have started working or do I need to contact SSA myself?

RAY>> As a matter of routine, the WIPA program will not make that report for you. You know, you should have had the discussion with them about how to make that report and when that report is necessary. 

You know, if you have made an agreement with your WIPA program that they will be making that report, then I would depend upon that. You know, but it would be a very rare circumstance that somebody from the WIPA agency would be doing that without you asking and them agreeing to do it for you. So, if you have any questions, now is the time to call your benefits planner back, see who is going to do it. Somebody is going to get that in. Remember, I told the self-employed person, or somebody, earlier, that you need to make that report containing information about your employer, where they’re located, how often you’re going to be working, what’s your pay rate. It used to be done in the office. It can’t be done right now because of the pandemic, but that report, that initial report, is very, very important.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray, for the thorough answers again. And we are going to move right along so you can keep debunking the myths. Thanks, Ray.

RAY>> All right. Thank you.

All right. Myth two. If I use my Ticket to go to work, Social Security will conduct a medical review of my case, and I’m going to lose my benefits.

All right, let’s turn this little guy over. False. It’s wrong again. Yeah. Social Security is really looking at people who return to work and looking for ways not to pull the rug out from under them. And, certainly, losing your benefits would be pulling the rug out from under you. If you’re using that Ticket, if you have gone to an employment network or gone or gone to the state VR agency, and signed your plan, and got that letter we talked about that says, thank you, Ray, your Ticket’s been assigned to ABC network, those medical reviews don’t happen. They’re suspended. As long as you’re making timely progress. And what we do is look at the month you started, and in 12 months, we look at what you’ve accomplished. And if you’ve made timely progress within Social Security rules, you’re good to go. No medical review.

Second 12-month period, same thing. If you’re continuing to make progress with your work goals, you’re good to go again. No medical review.

So, those medical reviews are suspended if you are using that Ticket and making timely progress. 

Now, those timely progress reviews are going to happen. They should happen every 12 months. And we’re looking at accomplishments. You could be finishing up high school. You could be getting a GED. And we’re looking at earnings. You know, the initial level of earnings is going to be pretty low. You know, we’re going to want to see earnings from both SSI and SSDI folks at the trial work level. We’re talking about 800 bucks. If you make 800 bucks and some change, you’re going to be good to go. In three months, you know. So, if you’re in school, think about when you can work. June, July, and August. You have to earn 800-plus in three months. In each of those three months, I should say, and you’ve met that timely progress goal. If you graduate from high school in June and then begin working for those three months, you’ve accomplished two of your goals. 

And the supports and services that you will use to reach those goals are going to continue. And every 12 months, we’re going to look again. Now you’re in community college. Did you take the required number of classes or the classes that you can take? You might not be able to do a full load because of your disability. Let’s see how that’s going. And if you succeed in doing that, we’ve got summer vacation again, so we want to earn a little more money. Three times. June, July, and August. 

Now, you can do that while you’re in school, you know, if you’re able. I was one of those people that couldn’t because I needed all of my time to study and working was just something that was not in play when I was trying to get my education.

That’s going to happen every 12 months. If you keep progressing with that goal, you’re going to be okay. No work reviews.

So, here’s an example. You’re making timely progress if, at your first 12-month review, you have worked three out of 12 months – whoops, I’m sorry, at $940.00 a month. That’s the trial work period amount for 2021. That’s going to go up in January, but it’s $940.00, it’s not $800.00 plus. It’s $900.00 plus. 

You’ve completed 60% of a course load for one year toward your associate’s degree, towards your bachelor’s degree, or if you’re in a certification course, towards technical, trade, or vocational program. We talked about that plumber. You’ve completed 60% of that. Notice, 60%. Everybody is recognizing that you have a disability and may not be able to do more. If you can do more, that’s fine. But that’s what we’re going to be looking for.

Every 12 months, the work is going to increase. The accomplishments in education are going to increase. And all you’ve got to do is take your time. Get through the first year. Understand what the expectations are for the second year. Take your time and get it done. No medical reviews if you do that. 

What happens if you don’t meet timely progress? You can still participate in the Ticket to Work Program. Your benefits payment and Medicare or Medicaid will not be affected. You’re still going to get your cash and your healthcare benefits. But you’re not going to be excused from the medical continuing disability review to review your case. 

Now, let’s be real about this. If your disability causes your need to stop progressing, that’s the best time to have a medical review. If you just say, no, this isn’t for me, you know, then you’re going to be subject to a medical review, and it may cause some harm. Doesn’t have to. Doesn’t have to. It’s an appealable issue, and most people who play the game and appeal are going to be successful.

Learn about that, timely progress. It’s very important. At http://bit.ly/ticket-TPR. Or look down there in the Timely Progress link in your web pod.

Myth three. We’ve got two myths, and we bunked – we debunked them. We beat them into the ground. So, let’s talk about this last one. If my Social Security payments stop because I go to work, and then I have to stop working because of my disability, I’m going to have to apply for benefits all over again.

What does our little friend say about that? False. It’s false. And he’s right. You know, we talked about expedited reinstatement. Yeah, and it’s going to require that you work and have your benefits terminated. And I told you that nobody else, no other agency, protects you after you’ve been terminated. But Social Security does. 

So, if I’m working, and I’m a success at work, and I am terminated because I’m making too much money, for five years, 60 months, if something happens and I have to stop working, or my work falls below that substantial gainful activity level, I can request expedited reinstatement. And it’s a quick application, and today is the 27th, so it’s late in the month. I’m going to venture if you applied today, you could potentially have a benefit paid to you in December. You know, if we looked at applying on October 1, you know, and you can’t plan this, can you? But if you applied earlier in the month, you could potentially have payments next month. You’re paid for six months while they’re making their decision, and the odds are forever in your favor, you know, because the vast majority of people who use expedited reinstatement get reinstated. You know, the question about the last small group that’s denied, half of those people already found another job. And the other half don’t have the same impairment. They have developed a new impairment.

So, really, really, this is a great program. You know, it’s a safety net, and I love safety nets. Every time you take a step forward, we need to tell you about the safety net. For people who successfully return to work and lose entitlement to either benefit, SSDI or SSI, but work stops, you know, or drops below SGA, within five years, here’s the six months of temporary benefits while we’re waiting for that medical determination. You may also be eligible for Medicare and/or Medicaid during this provisional period. And for those of you who are on Title 2 that may have dependent kids, you know, they’re going to have to apply over again. Because, you know, you’ve been working a long time, and kids have this funny thing about them, they get older. So, we need to file a new application for them that’s just checking to see if they’re still your dependents and if they are within the proper age range.

Not bad. Not bad at all. 

Last thing I want to say about EXR is that if you don’t want to do that and you want to reapply, you can do that, too. It’s your choice. Social Security will give you the information. If I apply for EXR, this will happen. If I file a new application, this will happen. And then you can make a decision.

So, let’s put it all together. We’ve talked about a lot of stuff.

Starting your journey. Excuse me. Only you can make that decision to start, you know, and you have to make the decision to get information to make that decision. So, what we’re encouraging you today, if you are about to begin, is get some information and then make the decision. It is a big decision. But understanding how working and earning money affect your benefits and your healthcare benefits is critically important. Is critically important. It’s going to keep you focused on the job and developing yourself as a worker rather than worrying what is coming in the mail today. 

Support finding and keeping a job, I think that’s the wonderful thing about this. Only you can tell us when to stop. You know, we will continue to provide you with supports for as long as we can until you say, that’s it, Ray, I got it from here. And that’s when Ray’s going to do the happy dance. 

The Social Security work incentives can help you transition, and they help make this transition a lot easier and a lot more palatable. They’re going to help you transition from benefits dependence to employment and financial independence. There are 20 – there are more than 20, you know, work incentives depending on the type of benefits you receive. Some of them sound alike, they apply to both, but they do different things. Benefits planners can help you understand those.

You can also look at choosework.ssa.gov or www.ssa.gov/redbook. Or give that Help Line a call. Or go into the Choose Work site and find your local benefits planners. Give them a ring and get some information. 

I like the success stories. We always have a success story to share with you. These are people who successfully returned to work. They were receiving benefits and left the rolls. 

So, Sarah, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Sarah, you don’t need to ask me any questions yet. We’re going to talk about Hazel’s story first. 

After years of struggling with her mental health addiction, Hazel found the support she needed to create a path to recovery and work towards financial independence. Let’s take a look at what she did.

She used the work incentives and successfully transitioned from disability to employment. Her story is going to be in detail at https://bit.ly/hazel-success. 

Now, what did Hazel say about this journey? And this is what Hazel really said, guys. Employment brought about a real turning point for me. It has been such a critical part of my recovery. Make no mistake, recovery is something you give away every day. The work I do here allows me to share my recovery with those that need it most.

That’s a great story. It’s a great story for me to hear that somebody who has experienced a disability, has gone through this transition to independence, decided to help somebody else do it. That’s a great story. Thank you for that, Hazel.

And Sarah, not Hazel, can you ask me some new questions?

SARAH>> No worries. Common mix up. I do have some questions for you. Thank you for sharing Hazel’s story with us, Ray.

The first question I have is, does timely progress mean that I have a specific amount of time to find a job and start working? What happens if I can’t get hired?

RAY>> Okay. If you – it does pretty much mean that. You’re going to have a specific amount of time to do the preparation or get the education that you need in order to find that job. And then there’s going to be some time – that’s one of your goals, right? You finish with all of that stuff, I’m going to get a job.

What happens if you can’t get a job? Nothing. You know, I mean, you did what you needed to do. You were making timely progress. If it doesn’t end up in a job, you know, is it because we’re still in the midst of a pandemic? Or, you know, is it because you’ve decided to stop? Either way, nothing is going to happen. You will lose the protections from the medical continuing disability reviews, but you can go on and continue to receive benefits. And when you’re ready, give it another shot.

SARAH>> All right, Ray, moving on to the next question I have for you. What happens after my request for reinstated – reinstatement, excuse me, is approved?

RAY>> You won’t really experience any difference. You know, you’re getting your benefits as provisional benefits until they approve your payment. And you’re just staying in payment. If you continue to collect cash benefits so that you have collected 24 of those payments, you then trip the trigger and start over with a new trial work period, a new extended period of eligibility, a new EXR. You know, I’ve been around long enough to know some people who are in their third trial work period. So, you know, it all starts over again. And then you are again making the determination as to whether or not you want to make that journey again.

SARAH>> All right. Thank you, Ray. Next question I have for you. If I’m working with an EN that doesn’t have a certified benefits counselor on staff, do I have to unassign my Ticket with the EN to work with my local WIPA to receive benefits counseling?

RAY>> Not at all. That Ticket is in play with your employment network. The benefits planners do not need that. You can talk with a benefits planner if you’re – excuse me – if you have made a decision to begin. You know, or if you’ve just started a job. There’s not – the Ticket and benefits planning are completely separate. So you can get services from both.

SARAH>> All right. Next question I have for you, Ray, is, can the Ticket to Work Program help me with obtaining certifications required for the job I want?

RAY>> Absolutely. You know, that’s part of what the Ticket to Work does. The state VR agency can help you potentially. If you want to work with a private employment network, you would use your Ticket to Work. And that Ticket to Work could get you set up in a program. You know, it could help you find financing for it. It’s not like they’re going to pay for it, but maybe they’ll reach into VR’s pocket and pay for it. And it’s also going to allow you to talk with that employment network about making any accommodations during the learning process and during that certification process if need be. So, that’s a great plan.

SARAH>> All right. I have another question for you. Does the Ticket to Work Program provide any assistance with getting a college degree?

RAY>> It can. You know, the Ticket to Work Program, as I said, the state VR agency is the big player. They’re the ones with the big bucks. And we can leverage money from them at times to get a college degree. But, you know, the ENs, the private ENs, are not likely to be able to fund your college education. They can help you get scholarships, grants, student loans if that is necessary. But, you know – or pull in VR and say, let’s get this person a college degree. So, it is infinitely possible that using your Ticket to Work, you can leverage money to get that college education.

SARAH>> All right. The next question I have for you, Ray, is, if I receive health insurance from my spouse’s employer, do I still need to purchase Medicare or Medicaid to participate in the Ticket to Work Program?

RAY>> No. It’s not necessary at all. You know, Social Security is going to want you to look at that plan. You know, and I am on my spouse’s plan, and I was looking to see whether I had to enroll on Part B. And I quickly learned that since my spouse is teaching here in Santa Fe, and the school system has more than 20 employees, I’m good to go. I do not have to register for Part B. So, if your employer – if your husband’s plan meets specific criteria, then no, you don’t have to. Yeah, you would then want to consider, you know, buying in if your husband’s plan does not meet those guidelines. Because if you don’t buy in at the earliest possible date, and you find you need it a couple of years from now, there are going to be increased premiums for you to pay. So, just make that decision carefully. A benefits planner can help you, you know, determine what the parameters of that plan, your private plan, is to see if they meet that Medicare criteria.

SARAH>> All right. I have one final question for you, Ray. I would like to purchase Medicaid under a buy-in program. Do I need to provide proof that I meet the definition of disabled? If so, what do I need to do?

RAY>> That’s an excellent question. You know, it says most of these are Medicaid buy-in for working people with disabilities. Doesn’t say Social Security disability. If you have a disability that’s been determined by SSI or SSDI, you’re good to go. If you don’t, you can get a letter from your doctor that says here’s the disability. You know, there are far more people with disabilities that don’t meet the definition of disability set up by Social Security, you know, than there are that do. And if you are not risen to that very severe level and want to work, a note from your doctor will do the trick. And then that will set the state in motion to make a determination as to whether your disability – you’re disabled for that buy-in program.

Really good question. I’m glad you asked me to share that.

SARAH>> And, like I said, that does wrap up our questions for the day, Ray. I want to thank you for being with us today and sharing your knowledge of the Ticket to Work Program.

RAY>> Thank you, Sarah. Thank you for having me. Fun as always.

SARAH>> As always, all right. Thanks, Ray.

Social Security’s Ticket to Work Program has a number of service providers and other resources ready to help you get started. To get a list of providers in your area or to get answers to questions that you may have about the Ticket to Work Program and other work incentives, you can contact the Ticket to Work Help Line at 1-866-968-7842, or for TTY, 1-866-833-2967. Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time. You can also visit the Ticket to Work website at choosework.ssa.gov at any time. You can also find us on social media or subscribe to the blog and email updates by visiting choosework.ssa.gov/contact/index.html. This link appears in the Weblinks pod under Ticket to Work Contact Information.

Get advice and encouragement, and of course read success stories from people who have had success with the help from the Ticket to Work Program. To receive text messages from the Ticket Program, text TICKET, T – I – C – K – E – T, to 474747. Standard message rates may apply, and you may opt out at any time. 

Please join us for our next WISE webinar, Choosing a Service Provider That’s Right for You, which will be held on Wednesday, November 17, 2021, from 3:00 to 4:30 p.m. Eastern Time. Registration is open, and we look forward to having you attend.

To register online, go to choosework.ssa.gov/WISE. Or you can call 1-866-968-7842. Or for TTY, 1-866-833-2967. 

Your feedback is very important to us, and it helps us plan for future webinars. Please provide your feedback and tell us what you thought about today’s webinar by taking our survey. To take the survey, you can follow the link that will pop up after the webinar or visit the Ticket to Work website to complete the survey. The survey can also be found in the Weblinks pod. 

I want to thank you again for attending today to learn about the Ticket Program. Please take this opportunity to reach out to any of the resources that we shared today and take the next step in your career path. 

This concludes today’s webinar. I hope you have a wonderful evening. Thank you.